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Does a shield used as an improvised weapon via Improvised Weapons rules

An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands... (PHB 147)

count as a melee weapon since it is similar to melee weapons?

In many cases, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. (PHB 147)

If so...

Do you get +2 to AC from a combination of the +1 AC from the Shield and the +1 AC from the first bullet point of the Dual Wielder feat?

You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand. (PHB 165)

Rubiksmoose
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Digcoal
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1 Answers1

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No. Neither Shields nor Improvised Weapons are actually Weapons.

(They can be treated as weapons during a melee attack with them, but not otherwise. Some improvised weapons are actually still weapons, but leave that to the other question I asked.)

There is a relevant tweet from Jeremy Crawford:

Q: A shield as an improvised weapon with the Dual Wielding feat: Does the feat's +1 AC stack with the shield +2 AC that round?

J.C.: Dual Wielder is meant to work (RAI) with a melee weapon or an equivalent, not something like a shield.

Dual Wielder (PHB p165) requires the character to be wielding a melee weapon in each hand. Common weapons are listed in the table in the PHB p149. While you may still make some weapon attacks with items not found in this table, it is not a weapon unless it is on the table or explicitly defined as such.

An example of an improvised weapon resembling an actual weapon is the leg of a chair. It resembles a club, and can be treated as one. A Shield does not resemble any actual weapon. Likewise, "frying pans, wagon wheels, and dead goblins" do not become weapons because you attack with them. (Those are some of the examples in the PHB.)

Apparently, during the actual attack, an improvised weapon is temporarily considered a weapon. However, this temporary status won't qualify it as a weapon except for features which apply to that attack. So Booming Blade would work with an improvised weapon but Pact of the Blade would not.

  • Unarmed Strikes
    • unarmed strikes are classified as melee weapon attacks, but they (fists, legs, etc.) are not actually weapons (this is in the PHB errata)
  • Shield Shove
    • granted by the Shield Master feat (PHB p170) as a bonus action
  • Improvised Weapons (PHB p147)
  • Ranged Weapons and Ammunition
    • since these are not melee weapons, they can only be used for melee attacks as improvised weapons (and might be treated as a simple melee weapon such as a club or dagger if similar enough)
    • you ignore all of its properties (i.e., ranged, heavy, light, etc.)

In order to qualify for the AC bonus granted by Dual Wielder, you must be wielding 2 actual distinct weapons, 1 in each hand. This means you can't use unarmed strikes, shields, improvised weapons, double weapons, etc., unless the item itself has a specific rule that applies. For instance, I can imagine Spiked Chain or some other exotic double weapons being allowed to qualify for Dual Wielder if specifically called out in their description.

Tavern Brawler (PHB p170) does not make improvised weapons into actual weapons. All it does is allow proficiency when using them (plus the other parts of the feat).

Nick Brown
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  • At the very least in the round you are using it as a weapon it would not be considered a shield and vice versa. That would be how I would likely rule this. – Slagmoth Apr 05 '18 at 14:56
  • That would be a house rule. By RAW, all of the weapons in 5e are in the Weapons table. – Nick Brown Apr 05 '18 at 15:01
  • oh, wait. improvised weapons don't count as weapons? Huh... didn't know that. I thought you could use dual wielder and two beer bottles or whatever – goodguy5 Apr 05 '18 at 15:01
  • It might be a good house rule to allow Tavern Brawlers to treat them (beer bottles) as weapons for some other things (like Dual Wielder), but probably not game breaking as they are spending multiple feats for that. Still not RAW though. – Nick Brown Apr 05 '18 at 15:04
  • @Nick Brown “Being used as a makeshift weapon does not make it a weapon.” I did not see that under Improvised Weapons. Where is this found? – Digcoal Apr 05 '18 at 15:28
  • Not every word in my answer is from a rule. That is deduced from other rules and a rule clarification that I will dig up. – Nick Brown Apr 05 '18 at 15:30
  • I've asked about Improvised Weapons as a separate question, since it seems to be coming up lately as part of other questions. I have a pretty strong opinion on how the PHB rules on this should be strictly interpreted, but I am curious about what arguments and evidence it might bring up as its own question. – Nick Brown Apr 05 '18 at 17:20
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    @Digcoal - based on the results of the question that I asked so that we can clarify this a bit, it looks like improvised weapons are temporarily considered weapons. While that will allow them to qualify for certain things that affect melee weapon attacks, it should not qualify them for things like Dual Wielding and Pact of the Blade, etc. I have updated my answer to include my new understanding of how Improvised Weapons work. It does not materially affect this answer (but I have reversed my opinion w.r.t. GFB and BB cantrips for instance). Thanks for calling me out on that one. – Nick Brown Apr 05 '18 at 20:46
  • I appreciate the effort. Many saw improvised weapons as you did so it isn’t hard to understand the confusion that I had and that surrounded the matter altogether. – Digcoal Apr 05 '18 at 20:52
  • I hope you're satisfied with the discussions. I am. Some of the rule citations and tweets and sage advice from the other question help firm up some of these questions a little. I'd rather change my mind a little and actually have the rules support my new understanding better. – Nick Brown Apr 05 '18 at 20:55
  • Not completely satisfied, but plenty enough satisfied to consider it case closed. I thank everybody for their views on the matter. – Digcoal Apr 05 '18 at 22:00