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One of the definition I know of any reflexive is to do to oneself.

I am not sure if this is only limited to passive voice:

Se frotan las manos por Jóse. (The hands are rubbed by George)

Ok, here is a sentence from a published textbook I am reading:

Frota su cuerpo con loción.(He rubbed his body with lotion)

But I think reflexive verbs also work here:

él se frota el cuerpo con loción. [To avoid the confusion with passive voice (the body is rubbed with lotion), I added "él".]

I am not even sure whether the confusion will happen.

Or to say he rub himself with lotion:

Él se frota con loción.

But my teacher said I use reflexive only when something like "en él" is used.

Él se frota en él con loción.

please, please, make as many correction of whatever I said as possible. Anything will help.

user11355
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2 Answers2

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Your first example is wrong:

Se frotan las manos por José.

Literally, this might mean They rub their hands because of José; quite absurd, probably, but this is the literal meaning of this sentence. In fact, this would mean They have high expectations because of José. If you mean The hands are rubbed by José, or better, José rubs his hands, we would say:

José se frota las manos.

This is a pure reflexive construction: José rubs himself (or, in this case, his own hands), so we can use it.

Passive-reflexive constructions, on the other hand, are also quite usual in Spanish. In fact, this is the most usual passive construction we use. For instance, you can say The letter was sent on Monday in two different ways in Spanish:

La carta fue enviada el lunes (straight passive form)

La carta se envió el lunes (passive-reflexive form)

The passive-reflexive form is much more usual than the other. But, as you can see, there is usually no room for confusion with the pure reflexive form.

Taking all this into account, the sentence Se frota el cuerpo con loción is perfectly good in Spanish and there is no ambiguity in it. It means He rubs his body with lotion and no other thing. Se frota con loción would mean He rubs himself with lotion; no need to add the pronoun él, there is no ambiguity.

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Gorpik
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  • "La carta se envió el lunes" means,to me, the letter sent itself on Monday. Can't you also say "se envió el lunes" to mean the letter was sent on Monday or if you are not specifying the subject who did this, someone sent the letter on Monday? – user11355 Apr 16 '15 at 11:22
  • The letter cannot sent itself. The real meaning is what you say in your question: it was sent on Monday and you are not specifying the subject. It is quite unusual to specify the subject in a passive-reflexive construction. – Gorpik Apr 16 '15 at 14:33
  • So if you do specify the subject, you would say " José se envió la carta el lune", right? (He sent HIS letter on Monday) But the letter is not his, don't you have to replace the definite article with a possessive adjectives accordingly? – user11355 Apr 16 '15 at 15:19
  • also(don't miss my previous question), you said the letter cannot send itself, but "se encuentra conduciendo su automóvil" is a legitimate sentence, and means he finds himself driving his car? (Just as a side question why does my textbook use "su", the possessive adjective when reflexive verb is used?) – user11355 Apr 16 '15 at 21:22
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    First question: José se envió la carta el lunes means José sent the letter to himself on Monday". If he just sent a letter, you don't use the reflexive se*. You cannot use the reflexive construction just for anything. – Gorpik Apr 17 '15 at 08:07
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    Second question: this is yet another kind of reflexive construction: the quasi-reflexive. Some verbs use the reflexive pronoun, but it does not really have a reflexive meaning. In this case, se encuentra just means está: José está conduciendo su coche. The possessive su has no relation with the reflexive particle se: it just means that the car belongs to him. – Gorpik Apr 17 '15 at 08:11
  • But as Rodrigo points out, "the object of the action matches the subject that performs the action", so in that sentence, we know from the use of reflexive verb that the object belongs to the subject. Why do we need the possessive adjectives? – user11355 Apr 17 '15 at 20:41
  • What @Rodrigo says is almost true (the object can also be a body part of the subject) for true reflexive constructions; but there are four other reflexive constructions: reciprocal, quasi-reflexive, passive-reflexive and impersonal-reflexive. The reciprocal construction can only be used in plural and part of the subject acts as direct object for the other part (e.g.: Juan y Pedro se vieron ayer; Juan saw Pedro and Pedro saw Juan). As for the rest, the subject and the direct object are different; one of them may even not exist. – Gorpik Apr 20 '15 at 19:04
  • To clarify a bit more: the quasi-reflexive, passive-reflexive and impersonal-reflexive constructions just use the reflexive construction, but they have no reflexive meaning. – Gorpik Apr 21 '15 at 12:12
  • Just a brief question: when to use encontrarse, not estar? I just learned that tratar de, encontrar de both mean to be about, or deals with. – user11355 Apr 22 '15 at 20:39
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    First of all: tratar de means what you say, but I've never heard encontrar de. As for the use of encontrarse, it can replace estar in formal settings; in informal conversations, you would always use estar. E.g.: Juan está en casa --> Juan se encuentra en casa; Pedro está reunido --> Pedro se encuentra reunido. Exception: you can use encontrarse, even in informal settings, to express your health state: No me encuentro bien (I don't feel well). – Gorpik Apr 23 '15 at 06:52
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A reflexive verb is indicating that the object of the action matches the subject performs the action.

For example, the following sentence illustrates the significance of reflexivity (although not a sentence you can actually use):

Juan frota loción en el cuerpo del mismo Juan.

Juan frota loción en él mismo. (Your teacher's option)

Syntactically the redundancy is solved using a pronoun:

Juan se frota loción.

This is the right sentence. It means that the subject is performing the action itself. (Juan rub himself).

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Rodrigo
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  • Doesn't the last example mean John rubs hisself lotion? – user11355 Apr 16 '15 at 11:25
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    In case OP is still there, or if someone else wants to know -- the pronoun encompasses the appropriate preposition. So, it means Juan rubs lotion on* himself.* – aparente001 May 06 '18 at 01:01