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Say an enemy is between me and a cliff, but they are 5' away from the edge (and I am 10'). I can't shove them because that only pushes them 5', which would get them right up to the edge; I need a 10' power shove.

I'm not quite clear on how moving while grappling a creature works, specifically where the creature ends up while you move them around.

Can I, with 1 attack, grapple them, then move them off the edge of the cliff and simply let go? If I can't do this with 1 attack, could I do it with 2? (grapple, move, shove or perhaps shove, move, shove) And what if it's not a sheer cliff face but, say, a low wall or fence?

SevenSidedDie
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Mag Roader
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3 Answers3

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Your best option is probably to grapple them. First replace an attack with a grapple (if you have "multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.") then carry/drag your enemy to the edge then replace another attack with the shove action to shove them 5 feet away from you (off the edge). If you have 2 attacks you can do this in one turn, otherwise you'll have to do it in two.

Nick Clayton
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    You probably don't even need to do the shove attack. Grappling let's you move the creature where you want, and it doesn't require an action to release the grapple. So you could just move him to the edge and release him over empty space. Picture Batman hanging somebody from their leg. As a DM I might grant the falling creature a reaction (if it still had one) to try to grab the edge, but I'd also give the grappler a reaction to attack if the grab succeeded. – Lino Frank Ciaralli Mar 20 '16 at 05:00
  • @LinoFrankCiaralli The viability of the method of dropping them without a shove is somewhat questionable. The rules don't go into much detail as to how moving with a grappled creature works but as a DM I would probably require my player to shove them off the edge. – Nick Clayton Mar 20 '16 at 22:12
4

You have a lot of ways to accomplish this:

  • To those with high Athletics: Grapple the opponent, move 10' forward (requiring 20' movement), release grapple
  • To those with Extra Attack: Shove the opponent 5' back, move in their square, shove them again
  • To Fighters: Attack, hit, expend one Superiority Die on a Pushing Attack Maneuver. The target makes a Strength saving throw and, if they fail, they will be tossed 15' away from you
  • To spellcasters: Use Thuderwave. The opponent makes a Constitution saving throw, and upon failure, is tossed 10' away from you
  • Another way: Grapple, move 5' forward (requiring 10' movement), shove them 5' back

If you need to push them off a low wall or fence first, I'm not sure, but I think the above methods might also work, if the DM allows you to substitute a shove for a toss. Otherwise, grapple them, lift them on the fence, and let go.

  • How do you know that the first option (grapple, move, release) actually works? It feels pretty much superior to a shove 5' in every way so I'm not sure why you'd ever perform a shove if you could do this kind of thing instead. – Mag Roader Mar 20 '16 at 17:56
  • @MagRoader The first option needs 20' of movement. The second needs only 10' but 2 attacks. If you can't move 20' anymore, consider the other options. And it works because, PHB pg. 195, Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. Stands to reason that if you move right next to a cliff, you can force the other off it. –  Mar 20 '16 at 18:48
  • I guess I'm not confident that "with you" means "you can position then in a specific way." Feels more like dragging alongside to me. – Mag Roader Mar 20 '16 at 21:13
  • @MagRoader If you imagine your opponent standing by the ledge, and you in front of them, you can move into their square, and so, they must move back. It just so happens it's a sharp drop after they move, so they're not falling because you're holding them up. You might want to take into account the rules for Push, Drag, or Lift, PHB pg. 176, to see if you're strong enough to do this (otherwise maybe you might fall with the opponent). You might want to clear it up with your DM if they will allow this in the first place, though. –  Mar 20 '16 at 21:23
  • I actually am the DM. I'm trying to figure out jut how dangerous high places are. Dangerous, sure, but how bad are we talking? :) – Mag Roader Mar 20 '16 at 21:46
  • @MagRoader In terms of pushing people off the cliff, it's pretty bad. My "proof" that you can grapple, move, release is less that the PHB explicitly allows it, and more that it doesn't forbid it. To take other factors into consideration, falling from 30' is 3d6 damage (ave: 11) + opponent is prone -- better than a regular weapon attack. To get back up, they need two turns assuming 30' of movement: half move to stand, half move to climb 7.5' up, a Dash to get another 15' up. A bonus action Dash lets you return in one turn, but that's all you can do. It's effectively damage and 1-round stun. –  Mar 20 '16 at 22:03
  • In a grapple, aren't you effectively grappling each other? So if you let go when they're dangling, they're not going to want to let go of you. I'd think there'd be at least some chance they pull you over with them. – Adeptus Mar 21 '16 at 00:08
  • @Adeptus In 5E, you grapple your opponent, they don't grapple you. That is, they gain the Grappled condition whereas you don't. Imagine it this way: someone has you in a headlock -- that can be considered a grapple, but you're not necessarily grappling them back. They can grapple you if they spend an action on their turn. –  Mar 21 '16 at 00:33
  • Fair enough. I'm still thinking 3e. – Adeptus Mar 21 '16 at 00:40
2

You can do this with 1 attack and 20 feet of available movement. Grapple, move 10 feet (costing 20 feet of movement) so you are standing on the edge and they are hanging in space, let go and wave bye-bye.

Dale M
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