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Our group has been taking issue with traditional systems for rolling and resolving skill checks/skill encounters, and we were wondering if there are more dynamic and realistic options out there.

Most games (in my experience) are some variation on [skill + misc bonuses + your roll vs. difficulty] trying to roll "high" (or low, same thing really). Even GURPS falls into this category ([roll vs. skill + difficulty]). I understand that this model is simple and adding bonuses and penalties and getting clear outcomes is really easy, but there are major problems with this model:

  1. It's Swingy. Sometimes, regardless of your skill level, you roll great, or terribly, and this may happen consistently or randomly, and you get situations where low-skill characters consistently roll high, high skill characters consistently roll low, etc., and so much of the time your skill checks (especially with plot-relevant skills like diplomacy) are really crucial.

  2. Bonuses and Penalties Don't Actually Matter as Much as Rolling High. This is an extension of 1). Take DnD, or any other example like it: What does a +1 really mean? All it means is that, in the exceedingly rare case that you missed your roll by 1, instead you pass. +2 means that if you missed your roll by 2, you pass. Etc. In order to have consistent effects from a skill bonus, that bonus has to be pretty high, to the point where you just start auto-passing stuff, and then the DC gets raised, and things are still just as swingy.

Solutions that Don't Work

Some people have tried to get around this by building in a re-rolling mechanic, and others (like Steve Jackson) have brought in a bell curve for their die rolls. I think these solutions are real attempts to solve the problem, but they seem to me more like curing the symptoms and not the disease, which sort of leads me to the question, "Why are we rolling dice at all?" or "why are we using dice in this way for skills?". I know things like Amber's Diceless attempts to do away with the whole problem, and I'm not really convinced that that's the right option (I'm open to hearing arguments, though), since it precludes all the excitement and fun of Skill Challenges (like DnD 4th, which we really liked).

What We Do Want

The ideal skill system,

  1. Doesn't have the above problems (swingy, bonuses and penalties don't matter as much as rolling high, isn't just a "patch" over this kind of broken system).

  2. Can handle simple, non-critical skill checks without much fuss or fumbles or absurdity (i.e., cooking a meal, walking a tightrope, piloting a ship).

  3. Can enter into robust skill challenges (a car chase, heated negotiations, a formal debate, trying to out-hack another user on a network) that are a substantial as combat and aren't just a series of swingy rolls.

  4. Is pretty clean and elegant, without a ton of crunch.

Any recommendations?

Clarifications and Definitions

A couple folks have asked about some clarifications on these terms.

  1. "Realistic" doesn't translate to "exactly how it would be in real life, down to the precise percentage." Because roleplaying games are simulations and only aim to present a model of reality, a system where character aptitude varies wildly and arbitrarily regardless of skill doesn't model the world we live in very well.
  2. "Robust"/"engaging"/"dynamic" just means that the system can actually handle describing a level of intricacy and complexity in character actions. Compare "Roll a diplomacy check to see if you convince him" to DnD 4th edition skill challenge with variable actions you can take such that there are different strategies and variable outcomes other than binary pass/fail.
  3. "Not a ton of crunch", as someone pointed out, is somewhat contradictory with 2. I understand that this is subjective to your level of comfort/love of math, but I think a good definition of "too much" crunch is where the calculations and steps are too numerous and/or too complicated either for the characters to easily grasp strategies about how to proceed, or playing the game is bogged down by what is essentially a convoluted mini-game that distracts from progressing the action of the game.

Hence, the ideal skill system falls somewhere between the extremes of 2 and 3 (one-shot resolution with no strategy other than rolling high and a highly convoluted system that bogs down the entire game).

PS. Don't worry about recommending a whole system, we're just looking for recommendations for a skill system. Homebrew solutions welcome.

doctorw0rm
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    Cool, okay. So for dice pool systems, you don't mention them in the question; are they in the "we don't want" section, the "don't work" section, or are they not relevant? Any why, would help too. Right now I have no idea how to vote on dice pool answers. :) – SevenSidedDie Aug 15 '14 at 02:41
  • If by dice pool you mean rolling many dice and counting successes (Mouseguard, Shadowrun, White Wolf, etc.) then I really don't have a preference about them. That's why I initially tagged the post as "system-agnostic." I imagine that dice pool systems could equally satisfy or fail to satisfy the given criteria. – doctorw0rm Aug 15 '14 at 06:10
  • About "What We Do Want" item 2: No sane GM wants a roll for cooking breakfast, if the player wants to demonstrate skill then maybe. Most RPG Rules have this written somewhere: "Only Roll dice if the outcome is not trivial". So i think Wishlist item #2 is irrelevant. – Dennis Christian Aug 15 '14 at 08:25
  • @Knartz. You're right about 'cooking a meal', but I just mean that there are times when skills are tested more simply than a whole skill challenge, and a system needs to also be able to do that. – doctorw0rm Aug 15 '14 at 19:04
  • I recently stumbled over a game that may be relevant here: Faith. I haven't played it so I can't add an answer. Suffice to say that it doesn't use dice but cards; players choose when to play which card. – Raphael Sep 07 '16 at 14:38

9 Answers9

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Try Fate Core.

Fate (Core and Accelerated) is available for free download here and are online here. It's a setting-agnostic engine (invent your own setting in collaboration with the group), which uses a small set of skill-based options to resolve nearly every action.

Swingy: No. Fate uses Fudge dice which provide a strong bell curve between -4 and +4, with most raw die rolls being between +2 and -2. There is also a currency of narrative control (gain it when bad things happen to your character, spend it to help your character succeed later) which can be used to modify rolls.

Bonuses and penalties don't matter: No. Because the majority of rolls are only 1 or 2 in either direction, this makes skill modifiers the most important part of determining success in a character's specialisations. A character's highest skill is usually +4 at the beginning of play, which turns even the lowest possible die roll into a mediocre success.

Non-critical actions are handled simply: Is built into the system's ethos! You only ever roll the dice if both success and failure would be interesting. Otherwise, just go with whichever is interesting (often failing a simple check results in just trying again, or in the story coming to a halt--so just assume success and move on).

Robust skill challenges: Are part of the system. When you're trying to achieve something, it can range from a simple opposed roll to a contest (everyone makes a series of non-opposed rolls against the same target numbers and the person with the most successes wins), a challenge (everyone makes a series of opposed rolls to compete for success), or a conflict (opposed rolls in a more "traditional" combat system style). Each is well-suited for particular kinds of opposition and the choice is always driven by the narrative. Regardless of the mechanical framing used, resolution of opposition is often much less clear-cut than "win and lose," as "success at cost" is a common option for avoiding total failure, while the system's narrative currency means failure is designed to contain the seeds of future success.

Clean and elegant, not a lot of crunch: Yup! Aside from some default examples, Fate Core is an engine that encourages players to design the level of crunch they're comfortable with for their own characters, and gives clear guidelines on how to do so without major imbalance. Fate Accelerated is a 75-page pared-down version of the engine, while Fate Core includes more "dials" to turn to the complexity your players want.

BESW
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While it had a whole host of other problems, I found QED's Marvel Universe RPG to have an excellent skill resolution mechanic that didn't use dice at all. Characters had an energy pool, and all tasks had a Difficulty and a Resistance. If your relevant Action numbers were high enough to overcome the Difficulty, you could attempt the task. You'd attempt the task by expending energy from your pool, and once you spent enough energy to overcome the Resistance of the task (which wasn't necessarily the same as the Difficulty), you succeeded... with the caveat that you could only expend enough energy in a round ("panel") as your rating in the skill, or occasionally in the skill plus the relevant ability, if the skill had it as a bonus.

Opposed tasks were either directly against an opponent's relevant stat or against their own energy expenditure, and it was possible to Specialize in a task that would make it require less effort. There was a chart with various benchmarks on it so you'd know how to price D&R for a task, and the fallback was always "Resistance is the same as the Difficulty" in all other cases.

Although diceless, it meets all of your requirements IMHO.

Example:

Black Cat needs to crack a safe. Her Thievery is 5, and a standard safe has a difficulty of 4, so the safe isn't too difficult for her to attempt; if it was 6, it would be beyond her. Its resistance is normally 20, but since she has the Safecracking specialty it's only 18, and she's limited to spending 5 stones a turn out of her pool of 10. She needs a minimum of 4 rounds to crack the safe (or longer, depending on her energy regeneration rate and whether or not she wants to exhaust herself doing this task).

Further information on the system's basics can be found in the following introductory threads on the Unofficial Marvel RPG Fan forum, specifically the threads on System Basics and combat.

Sandalfoot
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  • This is a fantastic alternative answer. I have three questions for you, though:
    1. In your experience, did this involve characters spending all their points on a task and then being useless the rest of the scene/panel/session?
    2. Alternatively, if 1 wasn't a problem, did you have the opposite problem of characters just always being able to do stuff and it not mattering how much energy they spent?
    3. Was characters hitting a wall of "no, your score is too low" frustrating or halting to gameplay?
    – doctorw0rm Aug 14 '14 at 23:00
  • Balancing their energy pool/regeneration vs. completing the task in an acceptable amount of time was part of the strategy of the system, as the player needed to decide "how fast do I really need to do this?" - valid question when, trying to defuse a bomb while being shot at. Also, as a panel is equivalent to a combat round in other systems and you get two actions a panel, being useless for the rest of the panel is a non-issue. 2. No, the philosophy of the system was "If you expend enough effort, you succeed." 3. No, because it's the GM's responsibility to scale the adventure properly.
  • – Sandalfoot Aug 14 '14 at 23:46
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    Actually, expanding on #3 a bit, it's the GM's responsibility to make sure any mission-critical tasks he puts in the adventure are attemptable by the players. But if Black Cat decides for whatever reason to try and lift a tanker truck, her Strength is too low to attempt the task so the GM says "Sorry Felicia, leave that to the Hulk." – Sandalfoot Aug 15 '14 at 00:01
  • That makes more sense about the panel length (I thought "panel" meant scene). So is there any long-term exhaustion, as in, attempting lots of different skill checks per scene and getting worn down by them? Or is energy just a per-encounter thing and the system is set up to basically tell you how long things take to do? – doctorw0rm Aug 15 '14 at 00:08
  • Your energy pool powers everything your character can do; skill checks, combat, defense, everything. If you run out, you're stuck until you regenerate. Whether or not GMs allow you to recover completely by dropping out of "panel time" when combat is over is a personal preference because the "real time" duration of a panel is variable. The entire system's core mechanics are based around spending energy to accomplish tasks; it's not just to tell you that it takes four panels to crack a safe but also how hard you hit in combat or how well you dodge. – Sandalfoot Aug 15 '14 at 00:14
  • Edited my answer to add links to relevant posts on the system's lone remaining fan-run message board. – Sandalfoot Aug 15 '14 at 00:25
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    Resource managing RPGs are very interesting. I played another Marvel RPG game which used cards for energy pool and it was really cool, although explosive draws made it less realistic. But the point is, resource management is a very good alternative, and extending to the skill challenge make managing your resources for every 'roll'... well very challenging – Dargor Aug 15 '14 at 10:07
  • I like the idea of resource management, but not like this. If I understand correctly, you'd never waste said resources on failure. In fact, you never fail; everything you actually do you succeed in. That doesn't feel like a rich system, storytelling-wise. – Raphael Aug 15 '14 at 14:00
  • @Raphael - It's a little more complicated than I was willing to go into here. The same mechanic is used for combat as well as opposed checks, and you won't know the final Resistance numbers for an enemy's defenses in such cases, so it's quite possible to fail by underspending. It's also not the GM's obligation to tell you how much Resistance you have to overcome. It's true that if you have all the time in the world and it's not too difficult for you you'll eventually succeed, which is pretty realistic IMHO. Still, YMMV. – Sandalfoot Aug 15 '14 at 18:27
  • @Sandalfoot Ah, okay, that makes more sense, thanks for explaining. It also moves it closer to the Cypher system (Numenera, The Strange); that one still has a die, though. – Raphael Aug 15 '14 at 20:51