7

This answer says other cantrips might be better instead of Electric Arc if you know the enemy has high Ref saves.

But how much lower should the other saves be?

For comparison, let's assume level 51, your spell DC is 21 (10 + level + trained + ability (5 + 2 + 4)) and the enemy has a High Reflex (15), and we only compare damage. The cantrips to compare to are Daze (the only combat cantrip with a Will save) and Chill Touch.

The comparison is easy against Chill Touch if there is only one enemy in range of Electric Arc, as they have the same base damage.

If there are 2 enemies, calculate with 150% of the base damage of Electric Arc.

  1. not to be too mean to Daze, as its damage is horrible compared to the others on level 3 or 7
Laurel
  • 4,105
  • 1
  • 19
  • 43
András
  • 64,090
  • 38
  • 198
  • 422
  • do the enemies have Evasion? – SpearCarrier.no2 Feb 24 '23 at 19:40
  • 2
    @SpearCarrier.no2, Evasion on monsters seems to be very rare, I am fine without it – András Feb 24 '23 at 19:41
  • 1
    How should persistent damage be treated? – brandon Feb 24 '23 at 21:17
  • 4
    @brandon, which cantrip do you mean? But usually I calculate with 2,5 rounds, and any particular monster does not tend to live longer than that – András Feb 24 '23 at 21:28
  • 1
    It might also be worth looking at an AC targeting cantrip. I'd recommend Produce Flame. – ESCE Feb 24 '23 at 21:38
  • @brandon, Ancient Dust is uncommon, but sure, if you feel like it. The bigger question than persistent damage is the expected number of targets. I never managed to get more than 2 enemies in a 15 foot cone – András Feb 24 '23 at 22:09
  • @András Had a session last weekend where a PC hit four creatures they lured into one. Still not going to assume it's packed with something in each square, was thinking 200% damage hitting a decent area vs 150% for hitting two creatures. – brandon Feb 24 '23 at 22:18
  • 2
    @brandon you seem to take the best case, I think a 15 feet party-unfriendly cone is worse targeting than 2 enemies in 30 feet of you. Quite often I cannot place Haunting Hymn without including a party member (so I use something else). – András Feb 24 '23 at 22:25
  • @András Seems tricky to balance against the alternative though, 7 Medium-sized enemies all being affected by the cantrip. Electric arc is more practical in many cases, but it seems like this question is attempting to focus less on that? – brandon Feb 24 '23 at 22:30
  • @brandon, isn't it 6 squares? But obviously, if I see even 5 enemies fitting in the cone shape I will use Ancient Dust, regardless of their Fort save ;) – András Feb 24 '23 at 22:35
  • @András See the orthogonal cone. Mostly just wondering what modifier to damage feels right to represent spells that could hit more than two creatures, even if practically that's going to be difficult. – brandon Feb 24 '23 at 22:55
  • Also, as the author of the linked answer it's a bit different than what you summarize here. Its point is that The best cantrip for any character depends on what your character can already do. If you can already target Reflex/deal electricity damage within 30 feet then picking electric arc might not be best. – brandon Feb 25 '23 at 01:48

1 Answers1

6

Baseline

Each will include damage to one target, two targets, or all targets in an appreciable area (15-foot cone) as x1/x1.5/x2 if applicable. We'll also assume that persistent damage lasts for 2.5 rounds on average, according to comment from asker. Two entries will exist for each spell not targeting Reflex, the first assuming a Moderate save (+12) and the second assuming a Low save (+9).

  • Electric arc: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.325/9.4875/9.4875)
  • Scatter scree: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.325/9.4875/9.4875)
  • Spout: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.325/6.325/6.325)
  • Spout near body of water: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.325/9.4875/12.65)

Cantrips Targeting Saves

  • Ancient dust: 1d6+4 = 7.5 + 2P* (7.5/11.25/15) (9.625/14.4375/19.25)
  • Chill touch: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (8.05/8.05/8.05) (9.775/9.775/9.775)
  • Daze: 1d6+4 = 7.5 (5.25/5.25/5.25) (6.375/6.375/6.375)
  • Disrupt undead: 3d6+4 = 14.5 (10.15/10.15/10.15) (12.325/12.325/12.325)
  • Gale blast: 1d6+4 = 7.5 (5.25/7.875/10.5) (6.375/9.5625/12.75)
  • Haunting Hymn: 1d6+4 = 7.5 (5.25/7.875/10.5) (6.375/9.5625/12.75)
  • Puff of poison: 1d8+4 = 8.5 + 3P (10.575/10.575/10.575) (13.1/13.1/13.1)
  • Torturous trauma: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (8.05/8.05/8.05) (9.775/9.775/9.775)

Cantrips Targeting AC

As above, but we'll assume a spell attack bonus of +11 against a Moderate AC (21) or Low AC (19). We'll assume splash damage can hit multiple targets if present as above, though that's really just for acid splash's sake.

  • Acid splash: 1d6+4 = 7.5 + 1S + 2P* (5.7/6.175/6.65) (7.7/8.175/8.65)
  • Divine lance: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.9/6.9/6.9) (9.2/9.2/9.2)
  • Gouging claw: 3d6+4 = 14.5 + 3d4P* (9.6375/9.6375/9.6375) (14.4125/14.4125/14.4125)
  • Phase bolt: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.9/6.9/6.9) (9.2/9.2/9.2)
  • Produce flame: 3d4+4 = 11.5 + 3d4P* (7.8375/7.8375/7.8375) (12.0125/12.0125/12.0125)
  • Ray of frost: 3d4+4 = 11.5 (6.9/6.9/6.9) (9.2/9.2/9.2)
  • Telekinetic projectile: 3d6+4 = 14.5 (8.7/8.7/8.7) (11.6/11.6/11.6)

Results

Many spells targeting Moderate saves or Moderate AC do more damage than electric arc targeting a High Reflex save when facing a single creature. Only daze, gale blast, and haunting hymn require a single creature to have a Low save or Low AC to surpass.

Several spells still don't surpass electric arc in damage when faced with two opponents in 30 feet, even with a large disparity in DC from High to Low. These include daze and several single-target attack spells (acid splash, divine lance, phase bolt, and ray of frost).

Outside of those five, all remaining spells surpass electric arc in damage against two or more creatures when targeting a substantially lower DC from High to Moderate or Low.

brandon
  • 14,501
  • 1
  • 33
  • 61