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I have a set of players whose characters I think are great, unique, and powerful. I dont find it hard or impossible to balance around, but they hit way above their weight class. They are a group of 3, and I have found that enemies with CR between 10-12, are essentially fodder for them. I have thrown groups of 6-8 equally(ish) CR creatures at other parties of more players and have had really difficult fights. However this group over the course of one session of combat running through a dungeon, destroyed 40+ enemies, often fighting in large groups at a time. For a lark, I decided to calculate xp they would have earned using the by the book rules. Each player character would have earned 240,000 exp. For a level 11, this is more xp then they have ever earned, and is enough to kick them straight to 13 almost 14.

If you were using traditional xp rules, is it really normal for such massive amounts of xp to be gained if a party is able to tear through such a vast amount creatures? Even in the example above, if I used less but stronger creatures, the xp would wind up being similar as the higher CRs are worth exponentially more xp. If you use these rules, how can ensure you can provide a challenge, without over-awarding xp?

Erudaki
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  • Its normal for PCs to get a lot of XP if they fight a lot of encounters. Generally, the issue is that the GM is providing types of foes that they are well-suited to fighting. We have various different questions that cover how to make challenging encounters without raising the CR of the foes. Do these answer your question? – Cellion Aug 16 '21 at 19:21
  • Does this answer your question? How do you make an encounter actually match its CR level? – Thomas Markov Aug 16 '21 at 19:56
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    While it addresses some concerns, I do not feel like it matches it fully. I think part of the problem arises with very well constructed characters. Using pfmetrics.com's character benchmarks, Several characters have multiple stats with well over blue rating for their level. One can hit 40+ac, very high saves, and very high damage and to hit bonuses. Coupled with strong magic, this lets them demolish almost anything that matches their CR unless it is very very specialized. Furthermore, The other characters are similarly optimized, just in different areas, and cover for eachothers shortcomings. – Erudaki Aug 16 '21 at 20:20
  • I want my question to really drive home the point that no matter what enemy I select, or combination of enemies I select and no matter how tactically I play them, the party of level 11s, will likely demolish it if it is of similar CR, unless I make every encounter designed to perfectly counter them, regardless of narrative sense. The comment about environmental factors helps the most, but this is something I do already. Higher levels, and all 3 are spell casters, means they have a lot of options in dealing with these issues. Freedom of movement, greater invis, etc. etc. – Erudaki Aug 16 '21 at 20:30
  • Is the issue building an appropriate encounter or the issue of awarding too many exp too quickly due to building challenging encounters? – Akixkisu Aug 16 '21 at 20:34
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    Not a dupe, IMO. – KorvinStarmast Aug 16 '21 at 20:37
  • It is the latter of the two. I have designed and created encounters that can challenge the three of them, however it is often done by using a lot of strong creatures, or a lot stronger creatures. This results in a lot of exp if you use the standard exp system. – Erudaki Aug 16 '21 at 20:39
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    Given that the linked questions - which discuss how to raise difficulty without raising XP budget - don't answer the question, could you clarify exactly what you're asking for? It seems like you both want to stick with the as-written XP rules, don't want to use the suggestions in the linked posts to make things more challenging without raising CR, and don't want to give too much XP. Those are mutually exclusive. – Cellion Aug 16 '21 at 21:25
  • It is not that I do not want to use suggestions in the linked posts. I am stating that the party in question's power level is vastly greater than their level suggests. I play as tactically as I can. And I already add things like environmental factors and traps into encounters. If there is nothing else I can do to raise the challenge without raising xp so be it. Theres my answer. – Erudaki Aug 16 '21 at 21:43
  • I'm not really sure how this question can be answered. Verifying their XP calculations? The words "Yes, they killed a lot so get a lot of experience"? Super general encounter building advice (that OP seems to have enough experience playing that it wouldn't be information they don't already have)? – Ifusaso Aug 17 '21 at 03:30
  • I think from the feedback I am getting is that the standard xp system sucks for characters that are strongly above the power curve for their level, resulting in accelerated leveling if enemies need to be stronger in order to challenge the party. In other words, if tactics and environmental factors are already being used, there are few other methods of raising difficulty without adding extra xp reward. – Erudaki Aug 17 '21 at 13:44
  • Another similar question about leveling too fast – Cellion Aug 17 '21 at 20:00

1 Answers1

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Overpowered characters will level up more easily and quickly if you stick to the standard XP rules, but there are ways to slow them down

Sometimes, your players will have brought characters that are statistically well beyond the assumptions of the game's core rules. The core rules just aren't set up to handle such deviations, and it isn't only the XP rules that fail to adequately serve the GM and the players well. Here are several tools I've personally used in the past to modulate the meta pace of the game. Each option requires player buy-in. Many players like leveling up quickly and being overpowered. So you would want to use these only if everyone agrees that they'd like the pace of leveling to be slower.

  • Change to a slower XP track - If player characters are leveling up too quickly, you can adjust the amount of XP it takes to level up. The Slow experience track for example requires 50% more XP per level than the standard track.
  • Implement restrictions on character builds - Although some of the most powerful and busted character options can be found in the core rulebook, the most overpowered character builds typically dip into a variety of sources in order to access stackable bonuses and unexpected synergies. Restricting these options can lower how badly the player characters outclass equal-CR foes, and reduce how much XP needs to be dedicated to each encounter.
  • Adjust the types of encounters - Create encounters where the difficulty doesn't come from the types of foes fought. A room of civilians to protect, a strict time limit, a mid-combat puzzle... there are many options that don't have a CR cost to them.
  • Use monsters that punch above their weight class - Pathfinder's CR system is poorly tuned at best and outright nonsense at worst. There are monsters at each CR that are total pushovers while others are much more fearsome.
  • Apply templates and mythic ranks to the monsters the group fights - Many templates increase CR by 1 or 2 while dramatically increasing how difficult a foe is to fight. The same is true for mythic ranks. Two ranks of mythic on the right monster more than doubles its capabilities, while increasing CR by 1.

Ultimately however, the easiest solution is to not follow the standard XP rules. You can use milestone leveling, where you level the group up after specific significant encounters or when they accomplish an important goal. Or you can reward XP in the amounts and frequency that you see fit, rather than the amounts indicated in monster stat blocks. Whatever works best with your players, what they enjoy most and best fits the pace and experience you want, is the right solution.

Cellion
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