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Currently using a Custom Origin (Tasha's CoE) Half Drow Rogue (Scout) 3 Armorer Artificer 5 with the Crossbow Expert feat. I want to make the maximum amount of attacks I can in the surprise round, which I believe is 3 (from the extra attack Armorers get at 5th level and as a bonus action from Crossbow Expert feat). I have a shield in my left arm, holding a hand crossbow on my right hand and the "gemlike node" for the Lightning Launcher is on the right hand of the armor.

Ex: My PC Kas wants to unleash a barrage of ranged attacks from cover to a distracted foe. He uses the Lightning Launcher with the first two attacks and finally uses the hand crossbow as a bonus action to finish off the volley.

Now it was never mentioned whether this node is on the palm side of the armored fist or the back of the hand, but only mentioned as either on your chest (like an Arc reactor from Ironman) or on the "armored fist". Personally I think it should be higher on the forearm like on a bracer or gauntlet part of the armor. Placing the node on the chest defeats the clause of the Crossbow Expert feat that needs a "one handed weapon" to be used to trigger using the hand crossbow as a bonus action. Also the Lightning Launcher is classified as a "simple ranged weapon".

Now being a "simple ranged weapon" on the "armored fist", does this qualify as a "one handed weapon" for the purpose of fulfilling the need to use a "one handed weapon" in order to use the hand crossbow as bonus action?

Jack
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Jhyarelle Silver
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2 Answers2

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You cannot use a shield and a hand crossbow.

The Crossbow Expert feat does allow you to ignore the Loading property, however, hand crossbows also have the ammunition property, which Crossbow Expert does not allow you to ignore:

you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon

If you are holding a shield and a hand crossbow, you do not have a free hand to load the crossbow.

It is unclear if the Lightning Launcher counts as a one-handed weapon.

Crossbow Expert states:

When you use the Attack action and attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.

The Crossbow Expert bonus action requires an attack with a one-handed weapon, and it is unclear if the Lightning Launcher counts, as it can be implanted in the chest or the hand. This one is up to the DM. Get rid of the shield, and this works as long as the DM rules that the Lightning Launcher counts as a one-handed weapon for the purposes of satisfying the condition of the Crossbow Expert bonus action attack.

Thomas Markov
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  • I see your point and a similar post lead me to ask this. https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/169623/artificer-armorer-guardian-attack-and-cantrips-like-booming-blade TLDR: Can you use Booming Blade with Armorer's Guardian Armor & and does it Gauntlets count as a melee weapon costing at least 1 Silver piece. Granted I can tech use the hand crossbow 3 times, but the first shot of the Lightning Launcher does 2d6+Dex mod vs a hand crossbow's 1d6+ Dex mod and a possible addition 2d6 for Sneak Attack if shooting with advantage. – Jhyarelle Silver Aug 10 '21 at 01:22
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    @JhyarelleSilver It’s going to be up to the DM if the launcher works with crossbow expert. If they’re cool with it, it works, but you definitely cannot use a shield with this setup, unfortunately. – Thomas Markov Aug 10 '21 at 01:23
  • Worth noting, with Extra Attack you can make one attack with the lightning launcher and one attack with the crossbow, and then you can get the extra d6 for the LL and unambiguously qualify for the bonus crossbow attack. This also gives you a 2nd chance to get your sneak attack (2d6) instead of a 2nd chance to get the extra LL damage (only 1d6). – Ryan C. Thompson Aug 10 '21 at 18:29
  • Looks like I can't comment on other answers as a guest, but it is worth mentioning you only need a free hand to LOAD the crossbow. You could load it outside of combat then equip the shield. This is especially relevant as the OP indicated they mostly care about using this in a surprise round. Given sufficient setup, you could even have several loaded hand-crossbows sitting nearby. Each round, you could fire the hand crossbow (bonus action), drop it (free action), and pick up another (interact), while still doing whatever else you want with your move and action. – Dungus Aug 11 '21 at 15:55
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    @Dungus Strictly RAW, loading is part of the attack. The full relevant quote is: "Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)." It probably wouldn't be unreasonable to allow someone to pre-load a crossbow (or several) and then equip a shield. Still, buying multiple crossbows and performing the appropriate setup is unlikely to be practical most of the time. (E.g. I'd probably give someone disadvantage on stealth if they were walking around carrying 5 loaded crossbows.) – Ryan C. Thompson Aug 12 '21 at 16:02
  • I'll point out that you don't need to reload a crossbow with the Repeating Shot Artificer Infusion, so you can blast away with a hand crossbow with it as much as you want, even if your other hand is full. – nick012000 Aug 14 '21 at 03:48
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    @nick012000 the repeating shot infusion removes the need for ammunition, but it doesn't remove the need for a hand to load it – Caleth Jun 21 '22 at 14:12
  • I assume the argument of the need to still "load" a hand crossbow with the Repeating Shot infusion is this. A magical bolt appears "loaded" on the hand cross bow but you still need to prime, by pulling/drawing the bow string a kin pulling the hammer on a revolver before firing. Right? So if you have a cartage base ammunition and weapon like a bullet and gun, you don't need to "load" as ammunition and propellant magically created chamber of the weapon; just pull trigger. – Jhyarelle Silver Jul 24 '23 at 06:50
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Actually, yes there will be a way to do it.

For one thing, the crossbow-mastery feat allows you to IGNORE the loading property of crossbows, so you can indeed use a shield.

Not to mention that a sensible artificer would be using the Repeating Shot infusion with their crossbow.

While it is ambiguous whether the lightning launcher is "one-handed", it most definitely is not two-handed and thus there would be a good argument for using the crossbow afterwards.

So have a word with your DM, and ask which way you should be working-it.

TheBaconWizard
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    Crossbow Expert lets you ignore the Loading property, not the Ammunition property, and the Ammunition property states you must have a free hand to load the weapon. – Thomas Markov Jun 19 '22 at 15:02
  • Hence the Repeating Shot infusion, obviously. – TheBaconWizard Jun 20 '22 at 16:04
  • Repeating Shot doesn't remove or ignore the ammunition property, it magically creates appropriate ammunition if none is present – Caleth Jun 21 '22 at 14:17
  • I didn’t say it does. However, very obviously indeed, if it has ammunition loaded magically and automatically when it is required, one doesn’t ALSO need to load ammunition.
    It doesn’t ignore the ammunition property, it SATISFIES it. Going through mental gymnastics and contortions to prevent someone from doing the very thing that it was designed specifically to do, is the opposite of what a DM should be doing.     – TheBaconWizard Jun 22 '22 at 17:31
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    Just to be clear, Jeremy Crawford has said that repeating shot ABSOLUTELY means you the player can ignore the ammunition property of a crossbow (in Dragon+) This attitude of being as obstructionist as possible, clutching at straws to make things the least fun they can be is bad gaming, bad DMIng and bad for the community. The clue is in the name. REPEATING shot. Not “Same as before shot” – TheBaconWizard Jun 22 '22 at 17:47