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I know these are technically immune to mind effecting spells and effects, but can they still be intimidated? I feel like intelligent weapons or items would be capable of fearing their destruction. They are capable of emotion after all. I understand that the spells may not be able to cause that because magic. However intimidate is not magic, or even supernatural.

Can these things be intimidated at all? What about demoralized?

Erudaki
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  • What's the point of the intimidating an item? What is the final goal? – enkryptor May 07 '21 at 12:53
  • Intelligent items can be as much of an NPC as any other. What are all the reasons you would want to intimidate an NPC? It can vary based on the situation or social situation. – Erudaki May 07 '21 at 13:42
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    One reason that actually came up in my game recently was that a player lost an ego attempt against their intelligent item. We wanted to try to "convince it" through intimidation to back down from what it was trying to do. – Erudaki May 26 '21 at 14:53

2 Answers2

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No

Per the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Intelligent items are treated as constructs. Which as stated are immune to mind effecting effects.

Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs.

The Pathfinder FAQ states

Intimidate, in particular, is a mind-affecting fear effect, so fearless and mindless creatures are immune to all uses of Intimidate.

So, as a result of this, magic items cannot be intimidated.

Cellion
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Erudaki
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  • What about the case where mind-affecting immunity is bypassed, such as via the Mesmerist's Psychic Inception stare? (I'm assuming that intimidate would work on immune regular creatures based on this question: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/87783/can-mesmerist-with-bold-stare-psychic-inception-use-intimidate-on-mindless-tar?rq=1) – sideromancer May 06 '21 at 14:50
  • @sideromancer Then I guess the mind-affecting immunity would be bypassed, and the intelligent magic item would be affected? I mean, what would be the alternative? – Hey I Can Chan May 06 '21 at 15:14
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    Where is the connection between being a construct and being mindless or fearless? – Mołot May 06 '21 at 16:07
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    @Mołot There doesn't need to be a connection between a construct being mindless or fearless when a construct already has "[i]mmunity to all mind-affecting effects" and, like the FAQ says, "Intimidate… is a mind-affecting fear effect…" (emphasis mine). – Hey I Can Chan May 06 '21 at 16:24
  • The rules are a little vague here. "Treat them as constructs" doesn't automatically mean "they are constructs". Quite the contrary, "treat them as X" implies they are not X (...but you can treat them as X in some context) – enkryptor May 07 '21 at 12:55
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    @enkryptor Agreed, and that does create problems (e.g. intelligent magic items have no HD), but I don't see those problems here. The game offers no alternative to treat an intelligent magic item as anything but either a magic item or a creature that possesses the construct type. And neither conventional magic items nor constructs can be the subject of a typical Intimidation attempts. – Hey I Can Chan May 07 '21 at 17:01
  • I personally think it makes for much more interesting scenarios if you can, however by the book that is not the case it seems. However I can see why people are in favor of that ruling. It is however, as far as I can tell, a house rule and not official. – Erudaki May 07 '21 at 19:08
3

Yes

If you read the skill description from the pathfinder 1e reference document, you will notice that it says that intimidation affects "an opponent" and that their "wisdom modifier" plays a role. My conclusion would be that anything which has a wisdom modifier and is capable of comprehending your attempts at intimidation can potentially be intimidated.

The FAQ says "fearless and mindless creatures are immune to all uses of Intimidate". But I would not consider an intelligent magic item with Wis, Cha and Int scores "mindless" and (depending on its personality) it might not be "fearless" either.

The rules on intelligent magic items say that they are "Magically imbued with sentience, these items think and feel the same way characters do and should be treated as NPCs" and "Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores". This implies that characters should be able interact with intelligent items socially, which would also imply the usage of social skills like "intimidate" on them.

Yes, that article also says to "Treat them as constructs". And Constructs have "Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms)". But contrary to what the other answer claims, constructs are not necessarily "mindless". And Intimidate is not any of those "mind-affecting effects" mentioned here. You might notice that all of those examples (including "Charm and Compulsions") are magical in nature, while the intimidate skill is just the mundane application of social skills. Intimidation does not affect the mind of the target in any other way than regular words do. It uses verbal and non-verbal language to convinces the target that cooperation is the logical conclusion to avoid harm.

So in conclusion, I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible to threaten an intelligent magical item with getting broken into pieces and why it would not be appropriate to handle that situation by applying the rules for the Intimidate skill.

Philipp
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    This seems to go against some of the rules that I have seen. Intelligent items says that they are treated as creatures and constructs. Thus it would be a creature target. You also discarded the segment that states that Intimidate is a "mind-affecting fear effect", which constructs are specifically immune to. Is there anything you can find that disputes these things or supports your interpretation further? – Erudaki May 06 '21 at 14:18
  • @Erudaki I can not find the section which says that. Can you point me to it. – Philipp May 06 '21 at 14:21
  • @Erudaki All I find about magic items in general is this which says that "Intelligent items should be treated as NPCs". I can not find anything about them being immune against mind-affecting effects in that section. – Philipp May 06 '21 at 14:31
  • https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/intelligent-items/

    I found it here. I quoted it in my answer.

     – Erudaki May 06 '21 at 14:35
  • @Erudaki I meant the section which says that "Intimidate is a mind-affecting fear effect". The description of the Intimidate skill does not say that. The FAQ you linked so doesn't say anything about intimidate and constructs. It only says stuff about "fearless and mindless creatures". Nothing about "fearless and mindless constructs". Further, as I argued in my answer, an intelligent item isn't mindless and not necessarily fearless. – Philipp May 06 '21 at 14:41
  • It's in the FAQ. (It's under What makes something a fear effect? What about a morale effect?) – Hey I Can Chan May 06 '21 at 14:46
  • @HeyICanChan Of many more times do I need to point out that this FAQ talks about "fearless and mindless creatures" and not about "fearful and mindful constructs"? – Philipp May 06 '21 at 14:49
  • Wait, why are you using the rules for Pathfinder 2e here? The systems are exceedingly different. – willuwontu May 06 '21 at 14:50
  • @willuwontu I only mentioned and used 2e in the last paragraph to point out a difference between 1e and 2e. I rephrased this to be more clear. All other links are to 1e. – Philipp May 06 '21 at 14:52
  • @Philipp "Treat them as constructs." is in the second paragraph of intelligent magic items rules (AoN link). Also is (emphasis mine) "Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores." – willuwontu May 06 '21 at 14:52
  • Would you be willing to make the same arguments about creatures that possess the type undead, or is there something unique about intelligent magic items in this regard? See here. – Hey I Can Chan May 06 '21 at 15:40
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    @HeyICanChan Most undeads are explicitly described as "fearless and mindless", so no, I would not make that argument about those. However, I would not be so strict about free-willed undeads which are capable of feeling fear and comprehending threats. For example, I would allow to attempt to intimidate a Lich by threatening its phylactery. – Philipp May 06 '21 at 15:46
  • That would be a viable way to rule it, however that is gm preference and not in the rules. This is a rules based question, and not asking how I should handle it as a DM. Because as a DM I tend to agree with you, and even if you are "fearless" doesnt mean your stupid. You still logically want to avoid destruction, and someone making a valid threat to do just that may convince you to follow what they are saying, even if you are not feeling fear. However I will reiterate, this isnt opinion based, we are discussing rules here. – Erudaki May 06 '21 at 20:06
  • The FAQ states that "Intimidate is a mind affecting fear effect, ..." that is the first segment of the answer. Then it goes on to draw a conclusion stating "... so fearless and mindless creatures are immune to all uses of Intimidate." This does not mean they are the only creatures immune to it, but they are the example given. This means you cant intimidate things like a Giant Spider. Which in real life definitely can feel fear and feel threatened. – Erudaki May 06 '21 at 22:34