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Let's say I am a level 5 sorcerer and I have already cast shadow blade. And I want to do the following on my next turn:

Quicken green-flame blade for 2d8 (from shadow blade) + 1d8 (GFB dmg) on the main target and 1d8 + spellcasting modifier on the creature next to it.

Then as my action I Twin the GFB again, and I make the first attack on target 1 and second attack on the target next to it, which allows me to do basically double damage from above calculation.

Is this allowed by RAW? If not why?

V2Blast
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Borislav Sevcik
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2 Answers2

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Green flame Blade can't be twinned

For a spell to be twinnable it needs to only target one creature. As clarified in the PHB errata:

To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level.

Green flame blade is able to target two creatures; the one you attack and one next two it. (See also developer tweet on the matter who agrees with this.) D&D 5e does not define targeting as well as it maybe should. If you would like to read more words on this and/or argue it, I direct you to the questions What counts as a target for a spell? and ask you not to argue it in my comments.

The rest works

To go through the logic: Green flame blade requires you to attack with a weapon you are holding and shadow blade explicitly creates a weapon (as opposed to say flame blade). There is also no limitation on casting two cantrips per turn, only to casting a spell of 1st level or higher on the same turn as casting a spell of 1st level or higher as a bonus action.

This may be efficient, but it isn't majorly broken though, it's costing you a second level spell (which you have to maintain concentration on) to set up and two sorcery point every turn (to quicken the cantrip).

Community
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Someone_Evil
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    You could quicken GFB then twin Booming Blade instead. – Tiggerous Feb 26 '20 at 13:05
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    I would argue taht GFB can be twinned with the following reasoning: it says in the spell description as part of the attack you must make an attack against 1 creature. the secondary effect if just that, a secondary effect. it happens after the spell has hit 1 target.

    So spell targeting the second creature is not initual, but the consequence of the original target, says so on the reference given above, the Hakon's explanation

     – Borislav Sevcik Feb 26 '20 at 13:31
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    @BorislavSevcik Assuming I understood your comment correctly, I'm going to reiterate JC on this: I've given you what the rules say, you (or your DM) are allowed to ignore it if you/they wish. – Someone_Evil Feb 26 '20 at 13:35
  • @Someone_Evil ah, you are correct with the reasoning, thanks for the answer – Borislav Sevcik Feb 26 '20 at 13:43
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I agree with above post, you can by RaW cast gfb off shadowblade but can't twin gfb as it can hit multiple targets, it should be noted that boomingblade CAN be twinned, as it is a single target spell.

It should also be noted you should ask your DM if you can take both greenflameblade/boomingblade AND shadowblade, as shadowblade is from xanthars guide, while the other two are from the sword coast adventures, it would violate the standard phb+1 in AL, and some DMs prefer to use this ruleset as well so as to prevent gamebreaking builds, and while it's fine at base level upcasting shadowblade while applying the cantrip damage, can get pretty nutty at higher levels for sorcerer, assuming you maintain concentration, and upcast, at maximum level

Example: with a 7th tier slot at lvl 18 the combo can deal 5d8 psychic+3d8 fire and 3d8fire+mod to a secondary adjacent target per round, if you quicken AND twin boomingblade after that's an additional 5d8 psychic+3d8thunder to two targets in range plus an additional 4d8 thunder to each if they move before your next turn.

That's a possible total of 35d8+3x str/dex mod+1xCha mod damage between two adjacent targets for a single 7th tier slot, every turn after you summon your blade, where you lose out on the gfb strike. then the combo only costs 3 sorcery points for every turn after, which you can do for 5 more turns. All For Sorcery points and a single 7th tier slot if you maintain concentration.

And thats WITHOUT taking a 2 level dip in paladin for divine smite.

Assuming max upcast At lower levels and accounting for cantrip scaling it's still up to

29 d8+3x str/dex mod+1xCha mod at lvl 14 with a 7th tier slot.

26d8+3x str/dex mod+1xCha mod at lvl 11 with a 5th tier slot.

20d8+3x str/dex mod+1xCha mod at lvl 9 with a 5th tier slot.

17d8+3x str/dex mod+1xCha mod at lvl 5 with a 3rd tier slot.

8d8+3x str/dex mod+1xCha mod at lvl 3 with a 2nd tier slot.

Granted you can only use the combo with 3 sorcery points, but the higher lvl you get the longer you can potentially sustain this ridiculous output, and you can always swap out the gfb spell for something like fireball or disintegrate, or just twin boominblade for 1 sorcery point a turn for around 70% of the previously shown damage output.

Alexander
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  • Welcome, Alexander! You might find the [tour] and [help] useful reading. Also, you certainly don’t have to do this, but I found your post a little hard to read; consider [edit]ing it to use formatting – Bardic Wizard Jul 11 '20 at 22:30
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    Hey, hello and welcome to the site. It doesn't seem to me like you are actually answering the question here, this to me reads more like an extended comment, some discussion/analysis and alternatives. While in a forum this might be considered good content, we try to stick to the QA format here - that is, an answer should focus on answering the question that's being asked (frame challenges are OK too though). Providing additional commentary is fine too, but as is this reads more like you giving your opinion rather than actually answering the question. – Cubic Jul 11 '20 at 22:33