7

Can the wish spell overcome a rakshasa's limited magic immunity when used to duplicate the effect of a lower-level spell?

I always wondered how the two interacted. What if I cast wish, duplicating the spell contagion (normally a 5th-level spell), at a rakshasa? The creature is immune to spells of 6th level or under, but does my spell count as a 9th-level spell because I used wish, or a 5th-level spell because the effect is that of contagion? Perhaps it counts as 9th for counterspell purposes, but 5th-level for immunity purposes?

If anyone has an answer, I would love to hear it.

V2Blast
  • 49,864
  • 10
  • 220
  • 304
Nicolas
  • 221
  • 1
  • 3
  • 1
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the [tour] if you haven't already, and check out the [help] for more guidance. – V2Blast Feb 16 '20 at 19:21
  • I don't think the previous answers are quite an answer to this question. They do point out that you could use Wish to cast higher level version of low level spells. But the question is asking if the Rakshasha's immunity to low level spells would be an issue if Wish, a high level spell, simulated the effects of one of these "lower-level spells." – Gandalfmeansme Feb 16 '20 at 20:38
  • I don't agree Medix2. The question is asking whether "the Wish spell overcome[s] a rakshasa's limited magic immunity when used to duplicate the effect of a lower-level spell." These other questions clearly show that a caster could duplicate a high-level spell (by casting, say, contagion as though an 8th level spell), and that's worth including in the answer. But the question is asking if the spellcaster does not do that, but rather simulates the spell at the lower level (perhaps they need to for some reason?), would it be subject to the rakshasa's immunity. At least as I read it. – Gandalfmeansme Feb 16 '20 at 21:29
  • @Gandalfmeansme Oh, if that is indeed the question being asked here, then I would agree with your assessment that is it not a duplicate. I'll just wait on confirmation from the OP about what they're asking – Exempt-Medic Feb 16 '20 at 21:48
  • 1
    Heh: I suspect that the OP would be totally happy with the answer the linked questions produce. But the question they actually asked (likely accidentally) is interesting to me, and I'd like to see if someone attempts to answer it. – Gandalfmeansme Feb 16 '20 at 21:50
  • The questions brought up by @Medix2 are probably the best possible answers. The rule on casting at a higher level (PHB 201) says that the spell assumes the level of the slot used for casting it. The wording doesn’t imply that this is unique to upcasting. Therefore, I think that if I cast “Contagion” using “Wish”, then “Contagion” is cast if it were a 9th level spell. Thus it would ignore magic immunity. To me this is a reasonable interpretation of RAW, and for the cost of a 9th level slot, it doesn’t feel OP. Any thoughts? – Nicolas Feb 16 '20 at 21:56
  • The whole point of this question is that some spells can’t be upcast (like “Contagion”), but I really want to use them on targets with limited magic immunity. Thus I feel that “Wish”, with all our prior reasoning, would fit the bill. – Nicolas Feb 16 '20 at 22:02
  • @Nicolas You actually can upcast spells like contagion, here's a question on things like that: "Can you cast a spell at a higher level, even if it doesn't have an "At higher levels" entry?" – Exempt-Medic Feb 16 '20 at 22:04
  • Thank you Medix2! I think that’s the real question I was asking myself. I guess that concludes my question: using “Wish” to cast “Contagion” DOES bypass magic immunity. Thank you to everyone else who contributed, this is my first question and I’m amazed at how fast I got an answer. I look forward to asking more questions :) – Nicolas Feb 16 '20 at 22:08
  • Now please forgive me for being new, but how do I mark that this has been answered? (I don’t believe there’s a need for further debate, your comment convinced me) – Nicolas Feb 16 '20 at 22:11
  • Hi Nicolas. I'm late to this party, but just to answer your latest comment: in this case, you don't need to do anything to mark this as answered; that would only be "necessary" if your question itself had answers. Since the duplicate question answers yours (and that question already has an accepted answer), the fact that your question is marked as a duplicate of that other question suggests that the other question's answers answer this question too, so it's all implicit. No need for you to do anything :) – NathanS Feb 17 '20 at 08:51
  • Hi @Nicolas and welcome! It is great you found the answer. The question "beneath the question" is interesting and ought to be answered. You can open a new question and answer it yourself. This would be helpful to others looking for a similar answer, too. For example: If you upcast a spell like Contagion to 6th-level using a Wish spell, would this overcome a Rakshasa's limited magic immunity? – Senmurv Feb 17 '20 at 09:04

3 Answers3

7

Yes

The Wish spell's first line states:

The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.

By my interpretation, this line means that the duplicated spell, with all of the effect(s) contained therein, is itself an effect of the Wish spell. Since Wish is a 9th-level spell (which is greater than 6th level), the duplicated spell, as an effect of a 9th-level spell, will be able to affect the Rakshasa.

Community
  • 1
London
  • 1,506
  • 1
  • 8
  • 13
  • 1
    Small pedantic comment, but "the casting of the duplicated spell" is slightly off from what happens. The duplicated spell is not even cast, it simply takes effect. This does further support your answer though. Wish is cast, a 9th-level spell, which can then be used to duplicate the effect of contagion. The spell level is 9th regardless. – Zigmata Feb 18 '20 at 22:06
  • @Zigmata good catch! Edited to reflect your observation. – London Feb 20 '20 at 14:06
1

If you duplicate the spell at 6th or lower level, No.

This part of a wish spell does not create the effect, it duplicates a spell. As spells only do what they say, the only part of the spell that is not a direct duplicate are written into the wish spell description.

Wish
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
PHB p.288

So the requirements, including costly components, are no longer required. Everything else about the spell (including range, valid targets, spell level, duration, school of magic, etc.) would be directly duplicated.

But you CAN avoid the limited magic immunity by casting a lower level spell at a higher level even if it's description does not include an "if cast at a higher level" see here. So unless you are specifically trying to reduce the effectiveness of a spell by limiting the level of the duplicated spell, you can cast it at a level above 6th.

Luke
  • 5,992
  • 1
  • 24
  • 48
0

I believe that is would because the spell Wish states "The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don’t need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." Also, you are using a 9th level spell slot soit would be considered nineth level which would be a high enough level to not be affected by limmited magic immunity.

Anonomy
  • 1