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Okay, so, real quick, I will place this here at the very start, if you don't want Tomb Of Annihilation spoilers, please do not read any further.

That being said, I'm deep into my blind run of ToA. We just entered the Tomb Of The Nine Gods last session.

My character allowed Wongo, one of the Trickster Gods, to inhabit his body. This gave me the RIDICULOUS power of having a DC 16 Wis Save Stun effect I can use as an action. As a Wild Magic Sorcerer, I have the quickened spell metamagic. So, I thought I'd get Immolation at next level, since the stun effect would go off first, thus making them fail the initial Dex throw.

Now, as per the Immolation spell description,

At the end of each of its turns, the target repeats the saving throw. It takes 4d6 fire damage on a failed save, and the spell ends on a successful one.

As per the Wongo Power,

While inhabited by Wongo, you can use your action to unleash a psionic assault on a creature you can see within 60 feet of you. The target must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the end of its next turn.

So, basically, I'm wondering, would the Stunned condition end before the secondary Dexterity saving throw was made? Or would the secondary throw automatically fail due to it being made before the condition wears off?

Dale M
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StoneyTheNos
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2 Answers2

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The DM decides the order

Borrowing heavily from this answer, in Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule for exactly this situation. On page 77, it contains a section entitled "Simultaneous Effects":

In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature's turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table - whether player or DM - who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.

Since these events (getting over the Stunned condition and making the DEX saving throw vs. immolation) occur on the enemy's turn, the DM would decide the sequence.

Personally, I would rule that they would automatically fail the save as they are only just recovering from being stunned, and wouldn't have time to simultaneously dodge a spell's effect, but that's just my take on it. Other DMs would be well within their right to allow the enemy to make the DEX save (although, as DM, they can rule whatever they like regardless of this rule, especially since it's an optional rule, so it subject to the DM's approval in the first place).

NathanS
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  • What would you say about DaleM's last sentence which argues they are not simultaneous? Or rather, could you provide a sentence establishing that these effects occur simultaneously? – Exempt-Medic Dec 01 '19 at 23:11
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    @Medix2 I'd say those semantics are just a result of one being a discrete occurrence (dex save) vs. an ongoing effect (stunned). I still believe both are resolved at the end of the turn and are thus simultaneous. At least, that's how I interpret it... – NathanS Dec 01 '19 at 23:15
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    Agreed, just was bringing it to your attention, thank you for addressing it – Exempt-Medic Dec 01 '19 at 23:17
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Whose turn is it?

The saving throw is made “at the end ... of its turns”, not at the start of the next creature’s turn. So, while it makes the saving throw it’s turn is still ongoing. Therefore an effect that lasts “until the end of its next turn” is still in effect. The turn doesn’t end until all the things that happen in the turn are resolved - the saving throw is part of the turn so it is affected by any effect that lasts throughout the turn.

“At the end” means this is the last thing you do on your turn. “Until the end” means until everything you do on your turn is done. The latter only happens when the former is completed.

Dale M
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