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Bad-guy sorceror just cast Summon Monster I and now a Snake has appeared next to a player. The snake is right next to the king, so she wants to make a go at grabbing the snake and cutting off it's head.

Is there a rules-based way for me work out the roll and DC? I was thinking it's not a Grapple check, as she's not really wrestling against a small snake, so maybe it's an opposed DEX check?

Someone_Evil
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NeomerArcana
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2 Answers2

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If she wants to grab the snake, it's a grapple -- follow the normal rules. Note that the snake gets -4 to grapple rolls because it's a small-sized creature. The snake can contest the grapple using Acrobatics, which represents the difficulty in grabbing a small and agile creature.

If your character wants to cut off the snake's head, it's an attack roll -- follow the normal rules for making an attack.

In general we don't allow characters to make improvised throat-cutting attacks to instakill monsters. The normal attack rules already assume that characters are trying their best to kill monsters, including head-chopping if the opportunity presents itself. If someone wants to kill a monster they should use the normal attack rules.

Dan B
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  • But aren't the grapple rules a little out of scope for a small snake vs a medium humanoid? – NeomerArcana Nov 29 '19 at 01:17
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    The grapple rules are not out of scope. The snake gets -4 to grapple rolls due to its small size. No other modifiers needed. – Dan B Nov 29 '19 at 01:57
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    Right, okay. But Grapple is strength based, there's no consideration for reflexes in catching the snake.

    Let's change it from a snake to a rabbit. Or a frog. This doesn't seem strength based

     – NeomerArcana Nov 29 '19 at 02:48
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    Reflexes or the rather the concept you're trying to describe and the difficulty in doing so is accounted for by initiative modifier and the rabbit/snake's AC size modifier. 'catching' could encapsulate the grabber's BAB and the strength modifier could describe the grabber's ability to gain a sure handed grip on the creature. If you're looking for RAW consistency the person you're replying to described the correct RAW way of achieving what you described. – MichaelDorf Nov 29 '19 at 12:48
  • Well it could work if the player can render the snake helpless and take a full round to try a coup de grace as well... insta crit + vigor save, that could work too. – Maxpire Dec 01 '19 at 07:39
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Strength represents your skill at physically manipulating objects

Strength measures your character’s muscle and physical power. This ability is especially important for Fighters, barbarians, paladins, rangers, and monks because it helps them prevail in combat. Strength also limits the amount of equipment your character can carry.

It includes manual dexterity with your hands and your ability to manipulate your strength. Someone with more strength isn't just hitting harder, they are hitting more accurately. As such, an attack roll or grappling check does fit.

This is because they wanted the martial classes to stand out. It may be less intuitive that strength would also include the ability to use said strength to grapple agilely and hit accurately, but per the rules, it does.

Nepene Nep
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