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My thought process here is that Clones do not have souls and are not creatures that have a consciousness. They’re essentially empty shells that breathe and are waiting for me to die.

My idea, step by step:

  1. Open a Demiplane and go inside.
  2. Cast Wish to cast the Clone spell for me.
  3. Waste 16 hours of time and take a long rest after the 16 hours.
  4. Wake up and repeat steps 2 & 3 until desired number of clones is achieved.
  5. Unplug and kill clone bodies.
  6. Turn them undead.

I'm hoping to use this method to avoid the moral quandary of killing others and stopping their souls from resting by turning them into undead.

Would this be possible, within the rules?

Mark Wells
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BloodySprinkles
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2 Answers2

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This works, but it's inefficient

Since the clones are said to be duplicate of the caster, they are creatures in that sense. You couldn't revive them, but using their corpses for the purposes of spells like Animate Dead or Create Undead should work. However, having to use an 8th level spell slot, a 1000GP diamond, a 2000GP vessel, 1 hour of casting time and 120 days of waiting for the clone to mature just to get some corpses to cast Create Undead or Animate Dead on seems ridiculously resource inefficient to the point where you'd have to wonder why your hypothetical necromancer would even bother anymore.

As to whether animating corpses is itself an evil act that requires such elaborate measures to avoid being evil while still using them - this is a personal issue you'll have to clear with your table. The 5e game rules do not precisely define morality, and this is on purpose.

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Cubic
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  • I’m sorry, but I didn’t say I was casting an 8th level clone. I said I was casting 9th level wish. And this was essentially to circumvent the idea of having to kill things with souls. Also, you don’t have to wait 120 days for it to be a corpse you can use as a zombie. Just to note. – BloodySprinkles Jun 14 '19 at 17:23
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    @BloodySprinkles The spell specifies that the body grows in the vessel, which I think any reasonable person would interpret that upon casting the form of the creature upon casting the spell is something akin to an embryo which is not really suitable for animating. The vessel is also still necessary to cast the spell (even if the diamond isn't) as that is where the clone is created; if you want to create a spell anywhere other than a vessel worth 2000GP that's no longer replicating an 8th level spell, but rather a new effect. – Cubic Jun 14 '19 at 17:39
  • So you’re saying that you don’t feel like Wish takes care of the costly vessel which is required in the spell? Because it says “You don’t need to meet any of the requirements in the spell, including costly components. The spell simply take effect.”. – BloodySprinkles Jun 14 '19 at 17:42
  • @BloodySprinkles Indeed. But the effect of the Clone spell is to create a clone in a 2000GP vessel. Wish can replicate that effect, but it won't create a vessel for you (or rather it won't if you use the "replicate an 8th level or lower spell" version, because the effects of Clone do not include creating a vessel). Nor does it let you ignore the maturing time (the spell takes effect immediately, but the maturing time is also part of the effect of the spell, not its cost). – Cubic Jun 14 '19 at 17:44
  • No with that I simply meant that you don’t have to wait 120 days for a corpse. As a corpse can be a child, a teenager, an adult, whatever. – BloodySprinkles Jun 14 '19 at 17:46
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    @BloodySprinkles Yes, but the age of the creature has no bearing on the time it takes on the clone to mature to that age - the spell doesn't specify the exact state the clone is in before maturation, so this is houserule territory anyway; just wanted to point out that you can't just assume the clone is immediately usable for animation as RAW this is only guaranteed after the 120 day period has passed. – Cubic Jun 14 '19 at 17:49
  • Ah. You’re right. In my mind I read it that way due to the word Embryo so many toss around and that it said if you wanted to be younger you could. But that makes sense thinking about it in that light now. – BloodySprinkles Jun 14 '19 at 17:50
  • The question's been edited to focus on whether this is possible within the rules mechanically. Your answer touches on that (saying it works but is inefficient), but you should edit your answer to support that claim using evidence. – V2Blast Jun 14 '19 at 22:00
  • @Cubic: Wish explicitly says "You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly Components." The Clone spell's components include the diamond, the flesh and the vessel. Not sure where you get the idea that you need to provide the vessel separately when Wish is fairly clear that you don't. How you handle it is DM fiat (does the vessel stick around after the clone dies/matures, or does it disappear once all spell effects complete? The latter avoids farming vessels for cash), but you don't need to provide components, and the vessel is a component, simple as that. – ShadowRanger Nov 13 '19 at 15:46
  • Side-note: At least one of the possible valid vessels is listed as "a mud-filled cyst in the ground". I really want to know how you make a mud-filled cyst in the ground that's worth 2000 GP. Is the mud gold-bearing? Is it all about location? Does the clone need to mature in a good school district? – ShadowRanger Nov 13 '19 at 15:54
  • @ShadowRanger probably not location. The mud including expensive raw materials is a viable possibility. The cyst (hollow organ or cavity containing a liquid secretion; a sac, vesicle, or bladder) could be an expensive material because it was harvested from a rare creature. Moreover, the costs of a material component can also include the costs of processing the materials into an appropriate component. for example the mud might have to be produced in a very specific way, the cyst might need to be finely engraved, etc. – Ruse Nov 13 '19 at 16:40
  • @ShadowRanger Wish lets you duplicate the effect of a spell. The effect of Clone is to create a clone inside a vessel; The effect of clone is not to create a vessel. You could use Wish to do this as well, but then you're going beyond merely duplicating a spell so the usual "beyond basic use" caveats of wish apply. I have no issue with ruling otherwise in your campaign, but I don't think you can make a good argument this is RAW. – Cubic Nov 13 '19 at 17:31
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Technically yes, but...

It's overkill (yeah I'm a comedian).
Using super big spells for this is like "there is a mosquito in my room, let's use dynamite!" Technically it works, but there are simpler ways than use a 9th level spell to create soulless corpes. (And technically, your clones have no souls, so if I remember well, undead creation spells that make intelligent undead won't work.)

For example, you could only kill criminals and monsters, or turn into undead people that wanted to be turned (anyone that wants immortality may accept this deal).
You could craft a magic item (or buy it depending on what your GM allows) that makes them confident that you will let them go free after casting the spell (depending on the spell you cast).

If you want to use super big spells, you can use clone or wish to make good peoples way harder to kill, so they can do risky things that have more chances to save the world without fearing the consequences.

Those way, you still are a necromancer, a powerful one, but you also are at least good (and for the chaotic part, it is how you roleplay that will define that).

Rorp
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    The question's been edited to focus on whether this is possible within the rules mechanically. Your answer touches on that (saying it technically works), but you should edit your answer to support that claim using evidence. – V2Blast Jun 14 '19 at 21:58