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Situation:

Fred the Fighter wants to survive another round in the ring with Bob the Barbarian. He's a skilled fighter, and has taken Combat Maneuver feats. Bob moves in to attack, but Fred readied to perform a Combat Maneuver. He specifically says "when the Barbarian attempts to melee attack me, I Bull Rush him". Bob is pushed outside of his reach from Fred.

What does Bob's turn look like? He's already moved, and was in the middle of attempting a melee attack (which no longer has a valid target).

Would any of these situations change the situation enough to justify another question?

  • Bob's was already within reach, and it was his first attack in a Full Attack action
  • Fred's Bull Rush leaves Bob near a different valid target (ally or not)
  • Fred ready-Grapples Bob instead
V2Blast
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Ifusaso
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2 Answers2

3

The melee attack fails and he has no actions left

Readied Actions happen before the action that triggered them:

You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

If the target still has actions left (5 foot step, swift action and free actions), he may still do them, but he already spent his move and standard actions.

Unless, of course, you are still within his reach, then he may still attack you because you didn't push him further than what would be necessary for you to be out of his reach.

ShadowKras
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  • Could you clarify how "just before the action" causes them to lose the action? – Ifusaso May 23 '19 at 18:57
  • " you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action." – ShadowKras May 23 '19 at 19:05
  • @Ifusaso If I may: Andy has readied the action Shove Bob and the trigger If Bob takes a swing at me. Bob takes a swing at Andy. Before Bob's swing, Andy shoves Bob to where Bob can't reach Andy. Committed to the swing but unable to perform it, Bob loses his action. (Yes, that's as terrible as it sounds, and you are not alone if it makes you want to take a swing at both Andy and Bob.) – Hey I Can Chan May 23 '19 at 19:21
  • Well I'm going to post a competing answer and see what others vote for before accepting – Ifusaso May 24 '19 at 11:57
1

The melee attack is prevented, but they can perform a different Standard Action

Because a Readied action happens before the triggering action, the action was never taken.

You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. Notably,

  • Your action occurs before their action
  • The rules make no mention of them not being able to change the action or losing the action
  • The allowance for them to resume after their turn includes the term actions not "that action"
  • Other readied actions (for instance, casting Baleful Polymorph or Hold Person "if they try to attack me") could make someone not capable of continuing their actions
Ifusaso
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  • Be it for good or ill, this is also my take. Here's a broader question that asks the same thing for 3.5. Pathfinder's developers, to my knowledge, have neither contradicted nor clarified the 3.5 positions. – Hey I Can Chan May 24 '19 at 13:01
  • Bob can't change the action without causing a paradox loop. If Bob changed the action it wouldn't trigger the readied action from Fred which would mean Bob would have no reason to change the action from his initial choice. The triggering action is spent. In this case Bob has used his move action, and his standard action, so all he has left is what Hey I Can Chan outlined in the comment on the other answer. – niekell May 27 '19 at 03:05
  • @niekell It's a paradox either way. That is, if Andy takes his ready action before Bob takes his action therefore preventing Bob's action, Bob now didn't and currently can't take the action that triggered Andy's ready action. Really, what flavor paradox do you prefer? (I prefer this answer's paradox because losing actions sucks, and because this way doesn't force a declare phase.) :-) – Hey I Can Chan May 27 '19 at 05:37
  • @niekell there's no paradox... the ready triggers off "if he attempts to attack me"... he attempted it, but never actually performed an action... by my reading. The Ready pre-empts doing something, but I don't see any language that says it cancels it out – Ifusaso May 27 '19 at 19:19
  • @Hey-I-Can-Chan I respectfully disagree with Andy/Fred "preventing" Bob's action. Bob is still able to swing his weapon at Andy/Fred, but as Andy/Fred is out of range he will not hit Andy/Fred. Andy/Fred interrupts in less than a second if his readied action goes after Bob's move action and before Bob's standard action used to attack. Bob has no time to stop, contemplate his new out of range position and choose another standard action. His limbs are committed to the action his brain sent at the start of his standard action. Bob fans the air, Andy/Fred smirks from 5' (or more) away. – niekell May 28 '19 at 05:41
  • @lfusaso The OP used the PC not the Player as the speaker implying it is Fred's words. If so then anything Fred interprets as a melee attack will trigger the readied action... Bob could Bluff or Feint and still trigger it. If it is meant to be official game terms then "attempt" doesn't belong in there. The readied action slides into the middle of Bob's turn it doesn't alter anything Bob has decided to do. If Fred failed to Bull Rush would Bob get to change actions? If so, he could change action to Diplomacy and say "Psyche!" and give a smirk to Fred. – niekell May 28 '19 at 06:21
  • @niekell RE: "Bob is still able to swing his weapon at Andy/Fred, but as Andy/Fred is out of range he will not hit Andy/Fred." No. From his new position Bob doesn't threaten FrAndy therefore Bob can't make a melee attack against FrAndy. Either Bob declared an action that committed him to an action that he now cannot take and that commitment costs Bob his action or Bob never took the action and can continue his turn from his new position with no loss of actions. Adding the declare phase is fine. Continuing without action loss is fine. And either way plays just fine. – Hey I Can Chan May 28 '19 at 07:00
  • @niekell (I'd forgotten there even was an example in the original question! I switched to the Andy/Bob construction in the previous answer's comment because that makes the names alphabetical and easier for me to remember. My apologies for any confusion!) – Hey I Can Chan May 28 '19 at 07:03
  • @Hey-I-Can-Chan I see it as Fred's Bull Rush success cancelling Bob's attack so this DM would rule Bob's action lost. It's similar to an opposed skill check. It isn't that Bob just lost something out of the blue, it was Fred's successful Bull Rush which caused the loss. It is 'sort of' contested, if Fred fails then Bob wins and vice versa. Fred only gets a partial action (the readied one) and if the Bull Rush is successful then Bob also only gets a partial action (move). There's an equality there. Next turn Fred is first and Bob right after in initiative. – niekell May 28 '19 at 07:23
  • @niekell And I've said that's a perfectly reasonable way to adjudicate events. However, my opinion is that obviating a creature's actions should be more difficult than saying, "I ready the action Tumble 15 ft. away and the trigger If I'm attacked." It really is totally cool if that's not also your opinion. – Hey I Can Chan May 28 '19 at 07:43
  • @Hey-I-Can-Chan Okay sure, different horses for different courses. Sorry, didn't mean to come off all confrontational. It all comes down to a roll of the dice so at any rate it's not like it is an automatic loss of an action. – niekell May 28 '19 at 23:46
  • @niekell It's totally cool. The lack of an official step-by-step combat example from Paizo or WotC that sees a combatant use the ready action hurts the game's integrity significantly. Also see this answer, and its explanation of Approach #1. – Hey I Can Chan May 29 '19 at 12:40