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Does Shield Master removing shields' two-weapon fighting penalties mean I don't take any penalties when dual wielding shields, even if I don't have the Two Weapon Fighting feat? I plan on getting Shield Master through the Weapon and Shield ranger combat style (gained as a slayer talent), so I won't have to meet its requirements.

e.g. If I have normally a +10 Attack Bonus, and I wielded a Kukri (primary) and Heavy Shield (secondary):

Normal: +4/+0

TWF: +6/+6

ShieldMaster(no TWF): +4/+10

ShieldMaster(TWF): +6/+10

So then if I wielded TWO Heavy Shields:

Normal: Same

TWF: Same

ShieldMaster(no TWF): +10/+10

ShieldMaster(TWF): +10/+10

Is my logic right here (e.g. Shield Master when using Dual-Shields makes Two-Weapon Fighting not needed? Or does Shield Master do less than that)?

KRyan
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Paul Cline
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1 Answers1

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You are correct, when using the two-weapon fighting combat option, the Shield Master feat means any attacks you make with a shield are made at no penalty. Since all of your attacks are made with a shield, none of them are penalized. The Two-Weapon Fighting feat is irrelevant, since all that does is reduce those penalties, while Shield Master eliminates them.

Note that, normally, Shield Master also requires the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. That means you cannot use Shield Master without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, as feats’ requirements must be met in order to use them.

But if you use a slayer talent to get a ranger combat style, and choose from the “weapon and shield” combat style in order to get Shield Master without meeting its prerequisites, then yes, you get to skip the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, and it won’t matter since all it does is reduce the penalties that you’re ignoring. Note that this approach does prevent you from taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, which could be painful. You’ll have to think long and hard about whether or not it’s worth it to burn two or three feats on one or two extra attacks at low attack bonuses.

KRyan
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  • I would also question the fact that second shield is not a weapon until you make an attack with it, so it won't qualify for feat requirements as "another weapon". – Draco-S Jan 22 '19 at 03:35
  • @Draco-S Shields are both weapons and protective gear. They are not “temporarily a weapon” while bashing, they just are weapons. See here are their weapon descriptions. – KRyan Jan 22 '19 at 03:36
  • "You can bash an opponent with a shield, using it as an off-hand weapon." That implies that you can't use shield as a primary weapon. – Draco-S Jan 22 '19 at 03:38
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    @Draco-S That line was removed by errata, and honestly was always a description, not a proscription, anyway. – KRyan Jan 22 '19 at 03:41
  • @KRyan What if I'm playing a Slayer, and I used the Ranger Combat Style to take Shield Master at level 6 while ignoring the Pre-reqs? Then can I fully get away with not taking Two-Weapon Fighting? – Paul Cline Jan 22 '19 at 03:46
  • Ok, that makes sense now. – Draco-S Jan 22 '19 at 03:46
  • @PaulCline Aha, yes, that’s exactly what I was referring to in my footnote. I’ll expand since now I see that it does apply for you. – KRyan Jan 22 '19 at 03:49
  • Ok that makes sense now Thanks! Now I just have to figure out how to make a decent build with Dual Shields haha! – Paul Cline Jan 22 '19 at 03:52
  • @PaulCline Can you use D&D 3.5e content, or only Pathfinder content? I made a 3.PF dual-shield character a while back and might have some ideas. The dungeoncrasher fighter option from Dungeonscape is phenomenal when combined with Shield Slam. Parrying Shield from Lords of Madness is also a really great option when you have a high-AC shield. – KRyan Jan 22 '19 at 03:54
  • @KRyan I can use pathfinder and only: Core Rules, Advanced Player Guide, Advanced Classes, Ultimate Equipment/Combat/Magic, and Dirty Tactics Toolbox! Any help is greatly appreciated – Paul Cline Jan 22 '19 at 04:03
  • @PaulCline That will take more work to figure out; I only mentioned the 3.5e material because I had a lot of details already worked out for a past character. For help here, you’ll have to ask a new question. Please read our advice on character-build questions, it will help you successfully get useful answers. (It’s technically about D&D 5e, but the principles remain the same.) – KRyan Jan 22 '19 at 04:08
  • @KRyan Ok Thank you for all the help! I'll get together what info/ideas I have for the character, read the guide at the link you posted, then ask for advice on here when ready! – Paul Cline Jan 22 '19 at 04:13
  • @KRyan ok I made a new question as suggested:

    https://rpg.stackexchange.com/q/139709/51654

     – Paul Cline Jan 23 '19 at 09:27
  • @PaulCline I saw, and voted to reopen it. Since no one’s saying anything, it’s not precisely clear to me what people want to see from it, but I can tell you it’s at 4/5 votes for reopening, so hopefully that will happen soon. – KRyan Jan 24 '19 at 04:39
  • @KRyan ok thanks for the update. I've minimized it as much as I can..not sure how to make it less broad and I followed the Guidelines you linked best I could. I'll wait and hope for the best haha. – Paul Cline Jan 24 '19 at 06:51