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Does the cost of making a spell's duration permanent by means of the Permanency spell count against a character's wealth by level, as long as the Permanency spell remains on the character?

V2Blast
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Zarus
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2 Answers2

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Disclaimer: A full discussion about Wealth By Level guidelines, the impact of Wealth on various character archetypes and how characters should best split their Wealth is considered out of scope of this answer.

The Wealth by Level guidelines can be found here for Pathfinder; they may diverge slightly for D&D 3.5, however as far as I recall they do agree on the following point:

[Table: Character Wealth by Level] lists the amount of treasure each PC is expected to have at a specific level. [...] It is assumed that some of this treasure is consumed in the course of an adventure (such as potions and scrolls) and that some of the less useful items are sold for half value so more useful gear can be purchased.

This means that the WBL guidelines are not about how much a PC should have earned until this point in their career, but how much financial power a PC is expected to bring to bear at each specific level.

Consumables, of which a Permanency spell would be, being subject to Dispel are therefore:

  • Counted against the WBL when at the disposal of the PC.
  • No longer counted after being dispelled, as the PC no longer benefits from it.

As noted, consumables will be consumed during the adventure, lowering the wealth of a character. It is expected they should be replaced by loot even if said loot is not immediately usable (unidentified, or unsuitable), which will increase said wealth, hopefully beyond its starting point.

Matthieu M.
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Wealth by level is a guide, not a rule.

Wealth by Level (WbL) is a generalization of how much money it is a assumed a group has, per person, when comparing to encounters' CR. A group with significantly more or less isn't necessarily wrong, but should be put against more or less difficult encounters.

Further, WbL assumes that some of their gear goes to non-permanent items. Specifically, when making a new character at greater than 1st level, it has recommended divisions of the wealth:

  • should spend no more than half their total wealth on any single item and
  • 25% of their wealth on weapons
  • 25% on armor and protective devices
  • 25% on other magic items
  • 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands
  • 10% on ordinary gear and coins

Because of all of this, a character who pays for a Permanent spell will always have that count against their WbL. The money is spent; the GM has no need to replace it if the spell is later removed. Most if not all of the spells that can be made permanent account for the fact that they will at some point be dispelled by having a reduced price compared to wondrous items that cannot be permanently dispelled.

Ifusaso
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    While this accurately reflects Paizo’s guidance, this answer would be improved if it discussed how that guidance is awful and if it suggested better approaches (such as, for example, that used by 3.5e). – KRyan Nov 04 '18 at 03:15
  • @Ifusaso To be clear. If I Permanency See invisibility for 5,000 gp at 5th level, it gets dispelled, and then I reach 6th level, where my normal WBL would be 16,000 gp, your stating that it would still count against the character's WBL, dropping the total to 11,000gp. Is this correct? – Zarus Nov 04 '18 at 03:45
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    @KRyan I'm unfamiliar with 3.5e's method of matching party capability to encounter difficulty. You're welcome to make your own challenge the frame answer. – Ifusaso Nov 04 '18 at 15:36
  • @Caldrun Essentially, yes. The money is spent so... they will always not have that money. Gaining a new level raises what you 'should' have, not that you add 16k to that or anything. Consider it a disposable item, like potions. You might spend 3000g on 10 Potions of Invisibility... you wouldn't then expect to get that money returned after you use them – Ifusaso Nov 04 '18 at 15:37
  • I like this answer... except for the last 25%. First, regarding the 15% of consumable, I'd note that potions are bloody expensive for their effects and should be avoided if at all possible; furthermore, scrolls and wands are of little use to characters not able to use them (non-casters). Second, regarding the 10% on ordinary gear and coins, ordinary mundane gear is pretty cheap, so while it may take 10% at low-level, at higher levels it's nigh nonexistent, leaving only "cash", usually stored in precious stones rather than coin (for weight concerns)... – Matthieu M. Nov 04 '18 at 18:59
  • ... And of course, this is before accounting for why WBL guidelines exist to start with, and the impact they have on gameplay for various classes (hint: the impact on non-casters is vastly more important than the impact on casters, because non-casters mostly use WBL to access spell effects which are barred to them otherwise). – Matthieu M. Nov 04 '18 at 19:01
  • @MatthieuM. Potions can be worthwhile in 3.5 with some effort. And, because of their casting times, potions of, for example, enlarge person and lesser restoration can be better than the spells they otherwise duplicate, rarely going out of style even at high levels. Also, adventurers who aren't packrats with a quarter-ton of mundane gear in their haversacks are, I'd argue, doing it wrong. Just sayin'. :-) – Hey I Can Chan Nov 04 '18 at 19:33
  • @HeyICanChan: I was more harping at the poor cost efficiency of potions, to be honest. Compared to scrolls or wands, ... I do admit having a really hard time decided which contingency to prepare for in terms of preparing backpacks; I've actually been wondering if I should open a question for a "typical" equipment or backpack breakdown at a few key levels (3/6/9/12/15/18 for example) which I believe could be of a huge help... but I cannot help but feel the question would be simply way too broad :/ – Matthieu M. Nov 04 '18 at 21:12
  • @MatthieuM. You could probably pose a question like What mundane gear should my level 3 fighter—who only has X gp to spend—be carrying so that he's prepared for the widest variety of events it'd be reasonable for him to endure? or something, but any answer will be competing with Shax and Ernir's list. (I bet somebody's probably done similar lists for Pathfinder.) – Hey I Can Chan Nov 04 '18 at 21:37
  • I'm not agreeing with the actual % (weapons are more expensive than armor and would likely have a higher % at many levels because of this). But that's the by-the-book information about why transient costs are included in WBL – Ifusaso Nov 05 '18 at 02:50
  • I see no reason for downvoting this answer, if you dont agree with it, you may simply not vote and provide a better answer. But as it stands, this answer provides correct information. – ShadowKras Nov 05 '18 at 10:42
  • At higher levels, and Im thinking 9-12, mundane gear is still fairly common, and that includes weapons and armors made out of special materials, alchemical items (you replace tanglefoot bags with tangleburn bags, for instance), poisons and herbs, etc – ShadowKras Nov 05 '18 at 10:53