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Can an object be transformed into a werebear (a shapechanger) using True Polymorph? Werebears have a particular kind of "shapechanger" ability that allow it to transform into a bear or just half-bear.

We know that "Shapechangers aren't affected by this spell." But would this stop the spell from making a shapechanger?

SevenSidedDie
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    This is not a duplicate. The original question asks about affecting the lycanthrope. This question is affecting an item and turning it into a lycanthrope. – David Coffron Feb 18 '18 at 10:54
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    Do you mean 'Can an object be transformed into a werebear?' Because 'transformed in a werebear' makes no grammatical sense to me. – Tenryu Feb 18 '18 at 12:25

3 Answers3

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You can turn anything into a shapechanger. You can't turn a shapechanger into anything.

The limitation is "Shapechangers aren't affected by this spell" - the object is not a shapechanger, ergo it can be affected. The effect of the spell is to make it unable to be affected by the spell in the future but then, so does a successful Disintigrate or Power Word Kill.

Dale M
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    True polymorph still has a duration though. Wouldn't a shapechanger have to be affected by the spell seeing that the spell effect is keeping the object as a shapechanger for the duration? As soon as the interest is transformed the spell should now be affecting a shapechanger. How do you address this potential contradiction? – Rubiksmoose Feb 20 '18 at 04:27
  • @Rubiksmoose See Lino Frank Ciaralli's answer. – KorvinStarmast Feb 20 '18 at 15:34
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Yes.

So the issue is that the object does not have the shapechanger tag, which is a specific tag associated with certain creatures such as vampires and were-things.

This means that yes, you can polymorph the object into a shapechanger. However, immediately after doing so, the creature has the shapechanger feature and it would automatically succeed on the saving throw against being polymorphed any longer. Or it would, except there's a caveat in the spell itself that prevents that.

From the True Polymorph spell, emphasis mine:

Shapechangers aren't affected by this spell. An unwilling creature can make a Wisdom saving throw, and if it succeeds, it isn't affected by this spell.

The creature is friendly to you and your companions. It acts on each of your turns. You decide what action it takes and how it moves.

So, since the object isn't a creature to begin with, there's no saving throw. Then, when it becomes a creature, it's friendly to you and you decide what action it takes. This means it is not an unwilling creature unless you say so, negating the need for the save at all. Any ruling that says the spell needs to be "re-applied" after the polymorph is strictly house ruling.

So by a strict RAW reading, the saving throw only happens on the initial casting of the spell. So for as long as the spell is maintained on the object, it does not get to automatically pass the save because an object doesn't get to save on the initial cast.

Frankly, at the end of the day this isn't OP and I would permit it at my table. There are plenty of far more powerful uses for this spell, including using True Polymorph to permanently change into an Ancient Brass Dragon (Level 20 character becomes a CR 20 dragon). They do not have the shapechange tag, yet they do have change shape. This specific ability permits them to become any CR 20 or lower humanoid or beast as an action as many times as they want.

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Lino Frank Ciaralli
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  • Not being affected is not the same as automatically succeeding on a saving throw. – GcL May 08 '18 at 20:07
  • Is there a point to your comment? What are you addressing specifically? – Lino Frank Ciaralli May 09 '18 at 14:51
  • Making a saving throw implies being a valid target or valid for the spell effect. XGtE has guidance about invalid spell targets not actually rolling saving throws. The shapechanger doesn't "automatically succeed". It's just not affected. – GcL May 09 '18 at 17:54
  • So what is the purpose of your comment? That doesn't change anything in my answer. I've already pointed out that even if you consider that a shapechanger auto saves, it doesn't matter because it never got the saving throw in the first place. Mechanically there's no difference in the outcome. – Lino Frank Ciaralli May 09 '18 at 21:06
  • The comment was to clarify or correct an aspect of the answer. Mechanically there is a difference between auto saving and not being a valid target. XGtE specifically addresses that situation as not being the same. – GcL May 09 '18 at 21:11
  • I understand. The object never got a saving throw in the first place, that's all part of the answer. My entire answer is about the save only occuring at the time of casting. A target doesn't get an ongoing save against this spell anyways, so even if they did, as I already highlighted, it wouldn't matter. If I see a plethora of votes supporting that this is unclear, I'll modify accordingly. – Lino Frank Ciaralli May 10 '18 at 04:17
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RAW - You can make a shapechanger, but it will instantly change back

Shapechangers aren't affected by this spell. An unwilling creature can make a Wisdom saving throw, and if it succeeds, it isn't affected by this spell.

When you transform a creature using true polymorph they are, by definition affected by the spell for the entire time the spell is active.

A spell's duration is the length of time the spell persists. A duration can be expressed in rounds, minutes, hours, or even years. Some spells specify that their effects last until the spells are dispelled or destroyed.

True polymorph has a duration of 1 hour or until dispelled. For that entire time, true polymorph is affecting the target.

If I turn a rock into a troll, that troll is continuously under the effects of true polymorph thus keeping the troll from becoming a rock again.

If you try to change something into a shapechanger, it will change, but then it will instantly change back because they are now a shapechanger and thus cannot continue to be affected by the spell per the spells description.

Since they are a shapechanger, they don't even get a save. They automatically fail and would revert to their previous form. The save is only for creatures that are unwilling, but a shapechanger (regardless of willingness) can never be affected by the spell.

Rules as fun - Yes

True polymorph is a 9th level spell and an incredibly powerful one. PCs can already use it to change their form to be so many other immensely powerful creatures that it seems silly to forbid this based on the strict ruling of the spell. As DM, I would likely allow it.

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Rubiksmoose
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