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What is the ECL of the beguiler (Shining south p. 60)? It obviously has an LA +0, but does it start at level 1? (Please site resources to confirm any statements)

NationWidePants
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The ECL of any creature with no LA is equal to the sum of its racial and character levels.

Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level
To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.

A Beguiler has 1 racial HD. During character creation, it loses its racial HD in favour of the class hit dice (source):

Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

So the beguiler has no level adjustment when used as a character.

Zachiel
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  • I assumed those rules applied to creatures with a - for LA, not an LA of 0. (I assume that's a quote from Savage Species). – NationWidePants Jul 24 '17 at 22:29
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    Also, the book, Shining South p.60, right before the beguiler, states: "Some creatures presented in this book are suitable for characterters; such monsters have a LA given in their statistics. Creatures without a LA entry are not recommended as characters." – NationWidePants Jul 24 '17 at 22:32
  • The beguiler has an entry for Level Adjustment: +0 (cohort). It is not playable as a character (no hands). Regardless of that, a 1HD creature can trade its racial HD for the class hit dice (any creature must have at least 1 HD). – Mindwin Remember Monica Jul 25 '17 at 03:41
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    From the SRD: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class. - I took the liberty of adding this info to the answer. – Mindwin Remember Monica Jul 25 '17 at 03:42
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    @Mindwin "any creature must have at least 1 HD" doesn't seem true, there are creatures with only half an HD. – Erik Jul 25 '17 at 05:36
  • @Mindwin Although it may be recemmended for cohort status, the paragraph directly preceeding the "Level Adjustment: +0 (cohort)" states that "cohort" is a recommendation, not a necessity (as quoted above). Also, at the end of the beguiler description, it gives reference to the Improved Familiar feat for a sorcerer and a page in the DMG p.200. – NationWidePants Jul 25 '17 at 09:39
  • @NationWidePants meaning it is way better suited to be a PC's companion than a PC itself. A beguiler as a familiar would be awesome for the true sight alone. Also don't overlook that it can do four attacks as a full-round (plus rake), and since one of them is a weapon attack it can use BAB progression to attack even more. One thought: don't allow beguiler rogues into your game, even if you allow beguiler PCs. – Mindwin Remember Monica Jul 25 '17 at 15:45
  • @Mindwin It is hardly a weapon attack. It is probably something like natural attack with stats (damage, crit) of a weapon held in a tail. Or else beguiler's full attack entry would be significantly different. – annoying imp Jul 25 '17 at 17:16
  • @annoyingimp You're 100% correct, it's weilding a short sword, in the example, as stated in the text describing the attack. – NationWidePants Jul 25 '17 at 17:25
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    from the book entry - Full Attack: 2 claws, bite and shortsword. It indeed wields a weapon, but it seems the claw is the primary attack, and the shortsword is "offhand". Notice it gains multiattack as bonus feat. – Mindwin Remember Monica Jul 25 '17 at 17:27