40

I'm running an Open Table sandbox game this summer. The 5E DMG states that they expect 6-8 Medium or Hard combat encounters per day, with about two short rests. If I tried to do that, we'd never get anywhere (short sessions, lots of newbies who struggle with combat), and my players and I enjoy many things besides combat, so I generally have closer to 2 combat encounters between long rests (though I usually make them at least Hard).

However, this means that PC's rarely feel the need to take a short rest, and people can use spells and other once-per-long-rest abilities pretty freely, which unfairly advantages casters (who have limited big effects and unlimited but less effective cantrips) over mundane classes (who have more consistently medium damage output and defensive capability). It also means that the benefit of effects that recover after a short rest, like Warlock spell slots, are much diminished.

I'd like to restore the balance and at least have the option to make my players sweat a little about resources. But I do not want to throw combat after combat at them - none of us would enjoy that much in a row, nor do I want every combat encounter to be super deadly; I just don't want them to start every fight at full strength.

The DMG suggests (under Adventuring Options: Rest) making a short rest 8 hours and a long rest 7 days. That seems promising, but a little excessive, so I'm considering making all rests 8 hours, but in order to get the benefit of a long rest you'd need to be in at least an outpost or otherwise reasonably safe and comfortable location, so the PCs can still have that moment of "I'm exhausted, let's retreat" without needing to wait a whole week before continuing.

Has anyone tried this, or other methods to maintain game balance and challenge with fewer encounters per day? What were the results?

SirTechSpec
  • 16,317
  • 10
  • 61
  • 117

7 Answers7

43

I'm currently running a West Marches style game. I realised before I even began that, if I were to use the standard resting times, I would either have to run an excessive number of random encounters, or have each and every one steam-rolled by a fully-rested party.

My solution was quite simple. I changed short rests to 8 hours (and renamed them to simply 'rests'), and completely removed long rests, instead saying that, at the start of every new session, the party is fully rested. Because, in the West Marches format, every session is a new one-shot (of sorts), and every party starts and ends in town, it seems natural that the party should start each session rested (having just been staying in town).

As a result, each session contains a reasonable number of encounters (including traps, environmental hazards, etc.), such that the 'adventuring day' is in fact split over a week (or so) of in-game time. This keeps the number of random encounters each (in-game) day feeling natural (one or two), while still taxing the party's resources towards the end of the session.

It seems to be working well, although I foresee that resources could be stretched rather too thin if the session were allowed to run on longer (than about 6 hours), or an adventuring day were allowed to run across multiple sessions.

In theory, it would be possible to do this in any campaign, as long as the players were willing to accept the slight implausibility of being fully-rested at the start of every session, regardless of circumstances. The key is recognising that it is the long rest, not the short rest, which has the greatest potential to imbalance the game. Because recovering hit points in short rests is tied to hit dice, allowing your party as many short rests as they like is unlikely to radically affect balance.

To summarise: The 'adventuring day' need not be an actual in-game day. It can instead be recast as the time elapsing in one session.

Ladifas
  • 8,969
  • 5
  • 42
  • 77
  • 1
    Great solution! – cr0m Jun 12 '17 at 23:56
  • 3
    Not sure if this was deliberate, but this method seems to sync well with the Gritty Realism variant from the DMG on page 267. – Pyrotechnical Nov 20 '18 at 14:23
  • 1
    @Pyrotechnical If I recall correctly, gritty realism makes short rests 8 hours and long rests 7 days, which is essentially exactly what I describe in the second paragraph (if you add the detail that I move ahead a week at the start of each new session). – Ladifas Nov 20 '18 at 21:43
  • This does undermine classes that gain more benefit form short rest and abilities that take a short rest to use. A session could cover weeks of in game time. It seems like a worse solution than just using the gritty realism rules and just saying you long rest between sessions. – John Jul 29 '19 at 15:12
  • 1
    @John In practice, in the West Marches format, a session takes a few days max, since every day of wilderness exploration is played in detail (until you get far into the campaign at least, when this can become tiresome). But I see your point for more traditional campaigns. – Ladifas Aug 12 '19 at 19:47
22

Encounters are not necessarily combat

What page 84 in the DMG actually calls for is "6-8 encounters" not "6-8 combat encounters."

You state that the party is into things other than combat. There are plenty of encounters that call for a non-combat use of spells and abilities (or non-damaging spells) that you can present to your players. Do a few of these, have the party take a break / eat lunch, whatever (in-game) and proceed on.

  1. Finding things (Detect Magic, Locate Object, various skill checks for Investigation).
  2. Persuading NPC's (Spells like Suggestion, various illusions, Zone of Truth) or using the Deception or Intimidation skills
  3. Meeting NPC's and engaging in various forms of parlay that are linked to a goal, quest, objective, or a particularly important piece of information related to their quest or adventure.
    • The core skills are going to be the Wisdom based Insight, Intelligence based Investigation, and various Charisma based skills. Spells for use on such occasions will need to be cast with care.
    • Zone of Truth needs a lot of set up if it is not to get people's guard up, unless what you are doing is an interrogation rather than a negotiation.
    • Friends and Guidance (in my experience, more the latter than the former) to boost the party face's chances at Persuasion can sway the interaction, as well as suggestion. The latter is more effective IMO than charm person in terms of getting someone to tell you something they know but were keeping hidden.
  • The goal of these encounters is information. (Was the queen really in the necromancer's chambers, and why? Who is it that is recruiting these cultists?) Lastly, if you actually use language as something that matters, the spell tongues is immensely useful in negotiations. Used it a lot in previous editions. A few months back in 5e, the cleric in our party defused a confrontation with a pair of hill giants by using tongues to talk to them and convince them to grant us passage through a narrow defile in the mountains. (Aside: if you don't use language differences as a world feature then a number of spells, feats, and abilities become moot.
  1. Exploring an area to find the old tower rumored to be in the forest but that nobody has a map to, and might not even exist
    • Since you asked for examples: This is where simple spells or invocations like speak with animals can allow the party to gather clues from the animals who live in the forest. Detect invisibility, and even knock, can fit into such an exploration where the objective is to find something. The party is clue hunting, so description is a huge part of your role as DM here. The "rule of 3" is probably your best tool in terms of getting the clues to line up so they have a chance to find it. Simply finding this place becomes the adventure's goal. Does anyone use speak with plants anymore? Trees are very old. They may know something.

Use of the deadly encounter

Toss in some Deadly encounters that they need to use spells and abilities to avoid or flee.

  1. Example: need to burn that web spell, or that wall of stone spell, or that fog cloud spell, to hold/slow down the Hobgoblin platoon so that the group can withdraw / flee since the swarm of Hobgoblins is too much to handle. Live to fight another day!
  2. Example : Similar situation with a large enemy/hostile force, but the PC's need to turn it into a running battle so that they can use missile / bow / ranged spell fire to whittle the enemy down so that it can be taken on.
  3. Example: similar situation to 1, but a risk can be taken to use various forms of persuasion, bribery, or negotiation (magical and otherwise) to utterly avoid combat.

All of the above are encounters that can earn XP (DMG p. 261) without going for the video-game-attrition-model of adventuring via bloodshed.

A final note on sandbox style games: having deadlier encounters that include stuff to stay away from (whoa, we tripped over the annual Ogre county fair, and there are five dozen of them with more coming down the road) is part of sandbox play.
Sometimes, the world will kill you.
You can't expect to win all the time, so you have to use your wits and pick your battles.

Reverse XP budgeting: why 6-8? Do 3 (tougher) encounters with 2 short rests

Using the XP-per-day-per-character table in the DMG, you can work backwards.
Example: 4th level can handle 1,700 XP-per-character-per-day, in theory, before resource exhaustion. (The 6-8 design + 2 short rests is all about resource exhaustion / expenditure). With five 4th level characters, there are 8500 XP worth of monsters to play with for an adventure day. Le't put together three encounters with a short rest between 1 & 2, and between 2 & 3. You've reduced your problem of "how many encounters" problem: each encounter is a significant challenge. Deadly is estimated as 2500 XP for 5 level 4 characters on the XP Thresholds by Character Level table. (The below examples add up to 8400 XP all told; close enough).

  1. Encounter 1: An Acolyte (re-skinned as a low level shaman) and 3 Berserkers. ((3 x 450 + 50) X 2) = 2800.

  2. Encounter 2: A Druid, 3 Scouts, and a Veteran (possibly elves who are guarding a sacred grove; and xenophobic regarding outsiders). ((450 + 300 + 700) X 2) = 2900.

  3. Encounter 3: A wight leading a zombie ogre and four zombies emerges at sunset from the forest / swamp / cave / ruin ... (700 + 450 +200) x 2 = 2700.

Caveat: each of these has a lot of enemies, so "focus fire on one enemy" becomes a less effective tactic, and the DM has a bit more work to do in each encounter. Dropping in a CR 7 monster (~ 2900 XP for one encounter) presents a different problem, but is at least easier for the DM to run).

Natural Disasters and Weather

You can use the environment -- flood, rock slides, earthquakes, terrible storms, forest fires, stampedes of herd animals, locust swarms, etc as challenges that will require some use of spells for protection or to get where they are going.

  • Experience with sandbox play:

One of the nice parts of the AD&D 1e system's tables was in dreaming up encounters in a sandbox/random encounter style. That merchant caravan? It might be the next quest trigger, it might be a slave caravan (looking for more merchandise) or it might be run by a syndicate that needs more guards since some ran off last week ...

KorvinStarmast
  • 143,146
  • 34
  • 471
  • 760
  • 2
    Your second suggestion, about dangerous situations they need a spell to get away from, makes sense. Your first one, though... Have you actually done this? How did you think of 4 non-combat encounters (or the equivalent) per day that the party would run across while traveling without it seeming contrived? – SirTechSpec Jun 11 '17 at 03:39
  • 1
    And what spells come up in situations 3 and 4? The DM's I've played with have all been the type to make is figure stuff out ourselves as players, so I'm not aware of as many ways magic, etc., can grease the wheels. More detail and specific examples would be appreciated! – SirTechSpec Jun 11 '17 at 03:42
  • @SirTechSpec I didn't say that all four of those need to be run in one day. Number 4 is almost pure exploration, investigation checks. For 3 the spells that work on persuasion or improving one's charisma. Examples provided. – KorvinStarmast Jun 11 '17 at 12:42
  • But for my purposes, if the players are going to actually count spell slots, I need the equivalent of at least 4 non-combat, spell-using encounters per day in order to make up the difference between the ~2 combats per day and the recommended 6-8 encounters per day. – SirTechSpec Jun 11 '17 at 20:58
  • Hence my concern about seeming contrived if there's a flood, an earthquake, someone they need to interrogate, and something they need to hunt for every day, whenever they're somewhere dangerous​. The examples do help, qualitatively, but quantitatively I'm not sure it's enough to achieve the effect I'm looking for. – SirTechSpec Jun 11 '17 at 21:17
  • Are you creating encounters or is there randomness in the encounter generation? – KorvinStarmast Jun 12 '17 at 12:25
  • Both (when I have something particular in mind, I do that, and when I don't, I roll on a random encounter table I made myself.) – SirTechSpec Jun 12 '17 at 13:18
  • Exploring ruins can have all sorts of non-combat spell usage, maybe all the stairs have collapsed (that is why there is still stuff on the upper floors) maybe a wall or floor is unstable and acts a s accidental trap, even something as simple as you find a beautiful tapestry its probably worth a a lot of gold, but it also weighs 1000lbs and is 3 stories up with no stairs. (i love throwing valuable furniture at a party) there are many ways to make basic exploration require resources while still being engaging. – John Jul 29 '19 at 06:50
  • DMG says "party can face up to 6 to 8 Medium to Hard encounters. The "up to" part is important here, as it implies resources expenditures, attrition, a limit that once past party success becomees in jeopardy. Even though roleplay encounters can be "hard", there is no such "6 to 8" limit in those as no resources gget "expended". – Pat Sep 09 '21 at 13:53
12

Some classics here

  1. Add a clock. Make sure that PCs have a reason to press on despite lacking resources. I know it seems obvious, but not all adventures are written this way.
  2. Move up to "Hard" and "Deadly" encounters. A Hard encounter should inflict some damage and force PCs to use some abilities and HD to recover.
  3. Build in counters to your PCs. Creatures with Fire Resistance can really slow down that Fireball launching sorcerer. Creatures with Legendary resistance force your PCs to really burn multiple spells / abilities to win. Creatures with advantage on saves vs. magic are similarly strong.
  4. Go wide. In 5e, lots of little monsters can still deal a lot of damage. 29 kobolds are a Medium encounter for 4 PCs at 5th level. But with positioning and some basic tactics, they will require multiple resources from the PCs. Also make sure one of them gets away to warn others (see clock above).
mdrichey
  • 10,767
  • 9
  • 52
  • 115
Gates VP
  • 10,277
  • 3
  • 27
  • 56
  • This answer applies to more than 5e D&D: this is basic DMing 101. +1. – KorvinStarmast Jun 10 '17 at 16:44
  • As I said, I'm already doing at least Hard encounters. 4. I'm trying to have less combat, not more - making my PC's slog through 29 kobolds would actually be worse than several combats in a row.
  • – SirTechSpec Jun 10 '17 at 16:51
  • I didn't mention this so I will edit it into the question, but this is a sandbox game - there won't be many occasions to put them in such a hurry they don't sleep for days.
  • – SirTechSpec Jun 10 '17 at 16:53