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This is a rubric for the hymn Ave maris stella from a French 13th century source. Someone helped me and gave me: 'A song for the Blessed Virgin when her office is celebrated on Saturdays in the monastery.' I'm looking for a literal translation. Is this close? Thank you.

R. B. Jawad
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  • I'm having a really hard time parsing this. Is this the whole sentence? – Figulus Apr 25 '20 at 05:27
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    De beata Maria virgine in sabbatis officium (Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary on Saturday) is a popular devotional office for Saturday liturgies. I have noticed that Sabbata, the plural of Sabbatum is often used in a singular sense, almost as if it were a plurale tantum, so it could be interpreted as singular "Saturday" as well as plural "Saturdays", not that that makes much difference in meaning. – Figulus Apr 25 '20 at 05:32
  • Ya, I checked again. I copied it correctly. It may be one of those cases that mixes in local dialects, I don't know. – R. B. Jawad Apr 25 '20 at 15:29
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    @R.B.Jawad Do you have an image or link you can post? I'm really skeptical of the "quae." I could easily see someone who didn't know paleography misinterpreting an abbreviation, e.g. it could be "quando" (as the translation you posted seems to assume), which would make a lot more sense. – brianpck Apr 25 '20 at 15:43
  • I tried to find the original source online, but couldn't. It's apparently from Roma, Santa Sabina, Archivum Generale Ordinis Predicatorum s. n., in a manuscript Correctorium des Humbert von Romans ("le gros livre"), ca. 1255. Here is an image from Stäblein's book: https://pasteboard.co/J5t50Xu.png – R. B. Jawad Apr 25 '20 at 16:44
  • Has anyone heard of an idiom where quae de ea equals de qua? I'd really like to change quae de ea to de qua or cum de ea (which is what I think R.B.Jawad's translator did), but I cannot justify it. – Figulus Apr 25 '20 at 16:50
  • Maybe the quae is just a dangling nominative. Those are common enough in all periods. – Figulus Apr 25 '20 at 16:52

2 Answers2

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According to https://cantus.uwaterloo.ca/chant/675638, the correct reading of this line in a Dominican hymnary is indeed Cantus de beata virgine quando in sabbatis de ea agitur officium in conventu, which indeed translates as "A hymn¹ of² the Virgin Mary when her office is celebrated on Saturdays in the convent³" [Footnotes: ¹ or "song" or "chant", but "hymn" would be the usual liturgical term; ² or "about"; ³ or "monastery", but this manuscript was for the use of Dominican nuns, so "convent" would be the more usual word].

gmvh
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A hymn about the Blessed Virgin... The rest is certainly correct, although the quae is indeed odd.

Batavulus
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    Do you have an alternative translation that you think makes more sense, or explains why you think quae is odd? I think it would help improve your answer to include that. – Adam Apr 07 '21 at 19:35
  • One would expect the pronoun q... to refer to cantus, which however is masculine. (qui). It's not really clear to me how quae could be explained (e.g. it doesn't make sense for it to refer to virgo). – Batavulus Apr 07 '21 at 19:41