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How does $\frac{n^{1-2/p}h_{n}^r}{\log(n)}\rightarrow \infty$, $n \rightarrow \infty$ and $h_{n}\rightarrow 0$ ($h_{n}$ is a function of $n$) imply $\frac{(\log(n))^{1/2}}{(nh_{n}^{r+2d})^{1/2}}\rightarrow 0$, where $\log(n)$ is the natural log of $n$ and $r,d,p$ are integers satisfying $r\geq 1, d \geq 2, p \geq 2$?

Ben
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ExcitedSnail
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    What are "$l$" and "$n$"? Or is "$lnn$" intended to be a single symbol? If so, what does it equal? – whuber Mar 24 '20 at 15:44
  • @whuber I just updated, it's $logn$. Thanks! – ExcitedSnail Mar 24 '20 at 15:46
  • @whuber can you reopen it? – ExcitedSnail Mar 24 '20 at 15:50
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    What is $n$? Is it intended to vary somehow? Or is it just some fixed positive number? And if so, what's the point of including factors that depend on it at all? – whuber Mar 24 '20 at 18:47
  • @whuber, $n$ in the paper is sample size, and goes to infinity. – ExcitedSnail Mar 24 '20 at 21:49
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    That helps. But now we need to know whether $n\to \infty$ independently of $h\to 0$ (which does not look consistent with your supposition) or whether they must maintain some relationship to each other during this limiting process. – whuber Mar 25 '20 at 14:29
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    That's a sharp observation. Yes, here $h$ is implicitly a function of $n$ and goes to 0 as $n$ goes to $\infty$. Thanks! – ExcitedSnail Mar 25 '20 at 18:20
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    Would you mind including that information in an edit to the question? I suspect that many users might then vote to reopen it. I, for one, would prefer to see the rate at which $h$ varies with $n$ to be stated specifically, for otherwise we would have to deduce it from the implication itself. In other words, you seem to be asking "If the fact that (this function of $n$ and $h(n)$) approaches infinity implies (this other function of $n$ and $h(n)$) approaches 0, then how quickly must $h(n)$ approach $0$ asymptotically in $n$?" – whuber Mar 25 '20 at 18:25
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    Thanks. I didn't see the exact rate at which $h$ varies with $n$ in the paper, which partly contributes to my confusion. Will check related references. – ExcitedSnail Mar 25 '20 at 20:03

2 Answers2

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Since you have specified that $h_n$ is a function of $n$, I'm going to change the notation to refer to this as $h(n)$. We can write the quantity of interest (without worrying about the square root) as:

$$\frac{\log(n)}{n h(n)^{r+2d}} = \frac{\log(n)}{n^{1-2/p} h(n)^r} \Bigg/ (n h(n)^{dp})^{2/p}.$$

We can let $L \equiv \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} n h(n)^{dp}$ denote the limit of the bracketed term (assuming this exists) and note that this limit may be infinite. If $h$ is continuous then we have:

$$\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \frac{\log(n)}{n h(n)^{r+2d}} = \frac{0}{L^{2/p}}.$$

If $L \neq 0$ then this is sufficient to give a zero limit for the quantity of interest, which is what you were trying to establish. If $L=0$ then you obtain an indeterminate form, and so the limit depends on the speed at which the numerator and denominator approach zero. You have not specified enough information about the function $h$ to assess this.

So, the answer to your question is that the conditions you have are not sufficient to give the result you want, but if you are willing to add a couple more conditions then you can get this result.

Ben
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  • That "the limit depends on the speed at which the numerator and denominator approach zero" was clear at the outset. A useful addition to that would be to analyze the rates at which they approach zero. – whuber Mar 26 '20 at 10:24
  • There does not appear to be any information about $h$ beyond some limits, so I cannot see how its rate of asymptotic convergence to zero can be analysed from the given information. – Ben Mar 26 '20 at 22:33
  • Because I have provided such an analysis, could you state which part of it appears invalid? – whuber Mar 27 '20 at 14:22
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Assume $h=h(n)$ is a function of the natural number $n$ that has a non-positive value only finitely often, so that the limits in the question are defined. After squaring both sides of the right hand limit to remove the $1/2$ powers, rewrite the implication as

$$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{\log n}{n^{1-2/p}\,h(n)^r} \to 0\ \implies\ \lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{\log n}{n\,h(n)^{r+2d}} = 0.$$

The antecedent of this implication states $n^{1-2/p}\, h(n)^r$ grows faster than $\log(n);$ that is, for any natural number $M$ (no matter how large), eventually for all sufficiently large $n,$ $n^{1-2/p}h(n)^r \gt M\log(n).$ Its consequent says something similar. Taking $n$ to be large enough for both assertions, the translation is the following:

For any natural number $M,$ if it is the case that for sufficiently large $n,$

$$n^{1-2/p}h(n)^r \gt M\log(n),$$

then it is also the case that

$$n\,h(n)^{r+2d} \gt M\log(n).$$

Because eventually everything in sight is positive (that is, $n,$ $h(n),$ $\log n,$ $r,$ $d,$ and $p$), use the rules of algebra to rewrite this implication as

$$g(n) \gt 1\,\ \implies\ g(n) \gt \left(M\log n\right)^{1/(r+2d)-1/r}\, n^{(p-2)/(pr) - 1/(r+2d)}$$

with

$$g(n) = h(n) \left(M\log(n)\right)^{-1/r}\,n^{(p-2)/(pr)}.$$

For this implication to hold, the right hand side of the consequent must (eventually, for all $M$ and sufficiently large $n$) not exceed the right hand side of the antecedent, equal to $1:$

$$\left(M\log n\right)^{1/(r+2d)-1/r}\, n^{(p-2)/(pr) - 1/(r+2d)}\le 1.$$

Since any power of $n,$ no matter how small, eventually exceeds any power of $\log(n),$ no matter how large, this implication can be true only when the power of $n$ is negative; that is,

$$\frac{p-2}{pr} \lt \frac{1}{r+2d}.$$

Since $p\gt 2$ and $r$ and $d$ are not negative (it doesn't matter whether they are integers), this can be a little more simply expressed by the relation

$$(p-2)(r+2d) \lt pr.$$

That, in turn, can be expressed as giving bounds for any one of $(p,r,d)$ in terms of the other two:

  1. $p \lt \frac{r}{d}+2;$

  2. $r \gt (p-2)d;$

  3. $d \lt \frac{r}{p-2}.$

whuber
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    I confess to using a little sleight of hand in deriving the initial formulation of the implication: it is best understood as an interpretation of the original situation, in which some kind of assumption about $h$ has led to the stated implication. We are, in effect, compelled to "reverse engineer" that context. Thus, the final conditions I derive are sufficient assumptions but they are not necessary ones. – whuber Mar 26 '20 at 11:40
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    Thank you so much! This post and your earlier comments has greatly improved my understanding of the problem. – ExcitedSnail Mar 27 '20 at 04:07
  • The first sentence does not seem to be a required condition. How do you know that $h$ is not a negative function that approaches zero from below? Later you also state that all quantities are positive, but I see nothing in the antecedent conditions of the question that would exclude the possibility that $h$ is a negative function that approaches zero (and e.g., is taken to an even power in all other equations). – Ben Mar 27 '20 at 23:39
  • A secondary issue here is that you seem to be finding values of $p,d,r$ for which the limit can be inferred, rather than establishing that the limit can be inferred for any $p,d,r$ in the specified range. I understood the question to be asking for the latter, which is a much stronger result. – Ben Mar 28 '20 at 01:52
  • @Ben Re "how do you know:" the implication makes no sense otherwise, because the square roots of negative $h$ are not even defined. I think you have the "strength" of results reversed: my argument immediately shows that when $p,d,r$ satisfy the final conditions, the implication holds. – whuber Mar 28 '20 at 13:19
  • But if $r$ and $d$ are both even numbers then $h$ gets raised to an even power before it is square-rooted. In that case you could have a negative function $h$, and it would be squared in all the relevant equations. So I'm still not sure how it is legitimate to assume that $h$ is not negative. – Ben Mar 28 '20 at 21:02
  • Your logic eludes me, Ben: by making a restrictive supposition you change the original question into something it's not. Moreover, questions about the "asymptotic order" of the title typically concern the magnitudes of functions like $h,$ so it would be reasonable to assume $h\ge 0$ everywhere. – whuber Mar 29 '20 at 18:49