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A long Mises Institute article questions the US COVID-19 metrics.

It ends with this claim, quoted from a Daily Caller reporter's Twitter feed:

Here is Dr. Birx saying that the government is recording anyone who dies with coronavirus in the United States, regardless of any other health issue, as a death from coronavirus.

Is this simple claim true?

Also are inferences from it like

Fox News’s Brit Hume, who has previously tweeted that New York’s “fatality numbers are inflated”, appeared on Tucker Carlson’s late-night show on Tuesday to claim that any person with the virus is being counted as a Covid-19 death “regardless of what else may be wrong”. Carlson responded by saying, “There may be reasons people seek an inaccurate death count,” adding: “When journalists work with numbers, there sometimes is an agenda.”

The rightwing radio host Rush Limbaugh, who received the presidential medal of freedom from Trump, previously dismissed Covid-19 as similar to the “common cold” but changed tack recently to claim: “It’s admittedly speculation, but … what if we are recording a bunch of deaths to coronavirus which really should not be chalked up to coronavirus?”

... justified?

the gods from engineering
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    I'm quite new to sceptics thus I'm not sure if I should turn this into an answer: In Germany, Lothar Wieler, Head of Robert-Koch-Institute, stated in a press conference that everybody dying with a positive corona test is counted as corona death, regardless of what else may be wrong. This seems to match the U.S. government method of counting (as stated by Dr. Brix), meaning that the numbers for the U.S. and Germany are comparable. – Hartmut Braun Apr 12 '20 at 14:29
  • @HartmutBraun each death certificate is prepared individually and it is a different decision each time by each doctor as to what death codes (up to 20) appear on the certificate. If ICD–10 code U07.1 is listed, they will be in the official COVID-19 count. – DavePhD Apr 12 '20 at 14:34
  • @DavePhD I'm not sure what your comment means. But you are right: the Robert-Koch-Institute, in the first place, provides only the guidelines. I think most doctor's will follow those guidelines also in a case by case decision. The numbers are then communicated to the RKI where they are aggregated. B.t.w, your comment also applies to the original statement by Dr. Brix "... the government is recording...", doesn't it? The government counts certificates, prepared by doctors individually for each case. – Hartmut Braun Apr 12 '20 at 14:51
  • @HartmutBraun I'm just talking about the US, like in my answer. – DavePhD Apr 12 '20 at 14:52
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    What counts as "caused by"? If someone had an underlying condition, and COVID-19 hastened their death due to it, is the death caused by the original condition or COVID-19? – Barmar Apr 12 '20 at 15:15
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    OTOH, if someone with COVID-19 is shot in the head, I hope they would not be counted as a COVID-19 death. – Barmar Apr 12 '20 at 15:17
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    You assume that the answer for any given U.S. county will be the same as the answer for any other U.S. county. I bet that's not the case though. – Solomon Slow Apr 12 '20 at 15:46
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    What is "notable" about this question? Whether a death is counted as being due to the virus is up to state and local authorities, not any national "authority", and likely varies considerably. – Daniel R Hicks Apr 12 '20 at 16:44
  • @HartmutBraun According to the RKI, it's not quite that simple: 'Das RKI zählt [...] alle Menschen, die mit einer COVID-19-Erkrankung in Verbindung stehen. Dazu gehören erstens Menschen, die direkt an der Erkrankung gestorben sind ("gestorben an"). Und zweitens Patienten mit Grundkrankheiten, die mit COVID-19 infiziert waren und bei denen sich nicht klar nachweisen lässt, was letzten Endes die Todesursache war ("gestorben mit").' (my highlight). – tim Apr 12 '20 at 18:22
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    I understand that to mean that if it's clear that the death is not corona related, it will not be counted even if the person had corona. If it's unclear how big a role corona played in the death, it will be counted (which imho makes a lot of sense). In either case, the RKI also thinks that deaths are likely under- not over-counted. – tim Apr 12 '20 at 18:22
  • @jeffronicus: sure, but the point of this SE site is to ask about statements which are (very much, sometimes) in doubt. (Recent example on the front page came from the 5G-Covid people... "besting" that by claiming no pathogens transmit any disease. Obvious LMAO, but HNQ too.) – the gods from engineering Apr 12 '20 at 19:29
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    We will only really find out the extent to which this is true (in the US or anywhere else) after the fact, by looking for the decrease in death from other causes. – hobbs Apr 12 '20 at 22:34
  • @tim I agree. But it seems to me that the information provided in the answers so far indicate that the US method is not drastically different from the German method because, as DavePhD pointed out, the cause of death is decided by the individual doctors. I don’t see how the exact differences in wording of the regulations will lead to a vastly different number from doctors who witnessed the circumstances and the progress of the illness. – Hartmut Braun Apr 13 '20 at 05:57
  • It'd be nice if they were (please note the sarcasm). That'd balance out with tens of thousands of suspicious deaths in Spain not being counted as corona deaths because the official body count only includes "confirmed while alive" cases. Thus excluding thousands of people who had symptons like cough, fever, difficulty breathing but died before being tested. There's an ongoing judicial process right now to clear things up a bit. English article in El País: https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-04-08/coronavirus-deaths-in-madrid-could-be-3000-above-official-figures.html – walen Apr 13 '20 at 09:03
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    The point seems to me that in the middle of a pandemic most of the metrics are different than supposed to be. I am Italian. Here everything it is thought and its contrary as well. First too much test were accused to inflate epidemics, than they were too less. First we count too much deaths because positivity was enough. Then a lot of deaths happened with no tests. And so on. Establishing numbers of this pandemic is likely work for analysts for the years to come. As far reality counts, hospitals are easily overwhelmed and economy stopped. As specialists warned us from the beginning of outbreaks – Alchimista Apr 13 '20 at 09:56
  • .... indipendent of accurate figures. – Alchimista Apr 13 '20 at 09:57
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    I'm not a betting man, but I'm betting the opposite is true. It has been proven in many countries not all corona-deaths are registered as such, so I'd very much doubt the claim is the case for the USA. – Mast Apr 13 '20 at 11:22
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    The "cause of death" field is not as authoritative and exact as we'd all hope. Doctors, who are clinicians, use their best judgement, but sometimes just guess, or even "phone it in" when it could be a number of things. A frame shift from "died because of covid" to "died while infected with covid" helps resolve the issue. This problem exists with virtually any "cause of death" that's being studied. It has even happened that new science invalidated a previously common "cause of death". –  Apr 13 '20 at 19:56
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    This question just seems to be a definitional quagmire made of philosophical quicksand. The implied assumption to "cause of death" statistics is that there is exactly one cause, which is clearly false. I can't see a point to this argument. Am I being too cynical? – Oddthinking Apr 14 '20 at 05:52
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    @Oddthinking The precise question might be a quagmire, but the obvious implication is far from it. Are we exaggerating death counts? That implication can be addressed while avoiding the quagmire. – matt_black Apr 14 '20 at 15:25
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    @matt_black: This starts with a specific question (but which is a quagmire), and then degenerates into a much broader question which is hard to answer for the next 10 years or so. At the moment, we have answers that do not address the former question. – Oddthinking Apr 15 '20 at 04:04
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    I have removed this from HNQ - perhaps the first time for me? - because it is too ill-defined for the attention it is getting. – Oddthinking Apr 15 '20 at 04:04
  • @fredsbend I think this is the only real answer. We don't have the resources to autopsy everyone to see exactly what happened. So long as the doctors are confident it's natural causes what goes on the death certificate is usually simply what they were being treated for. It would be even more so now that it's all hands on deck treating Covid-19. – Loren Pechtel Apr 16 '20 at 01:58
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    I remember a report of people in China being quarantined in a building that then collapsed with roughly 20 dead. – gnasher729 Apr 17 '20 at 15:24
  • Wow. That article has not aged well. – PoloHoleSet Jul 23 '21 at 19:57
  • News reports of people dying by gunshot or accidents being counted as covid deaths show that there is definitely a need for creating more classifications instead of just one gigantic black hole of "covid deaths" where you lump every body together. – Nikhil VJ Jan 11 '22 at 09:23

7 Answers7

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The larger context of Birx's quote is::

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.

Specifically, she seems to be talking about people hospitalized because of covid19 who are counted as covid19 deaths even if they may have other conditions.

She later clarified:

Add another doctor who has now rejected this theory: Birx. She was asked about it at Wednesday’s briefing and referenced the point above about how the coronavirus exacerbates existing conditions.

“Those individuals will have an underlying condition, but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it’s related to a covid infection,” Birx said. “In fact, it’s the opposite.”

Fauci also rejects these claims as conspiracy theories:

“You will always have conspiracy theories when you have a very challenging public health crisis. They are nothing but distractions,”

Instead of overcounting, deaths are actually undercounted (see also here) because there is still a lack of testing:

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention counts only deaths in which the presence of the coronavirus is confirmed in a laboratory test. [Emphasis added.] “We know that it is an underestimation,” agency spokeswoman Kristen Nordlund said.

A widespread lack of access to testing in the early weeks of the U.S. outbreak means people with respiratory illnesses died without being counted, epidemiologists say. Even now, some people who die at home or in overburdened nursing homes are not being tested, according to funeral directors, medical examiners and nursing home representatives.

adamaero
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tim
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    Also, while there are some who die with the virus but due to something else, there are also those who die because of unavailability of medical services. For instance, in NYC, someone in need of a heart transplant, or setting and sanitizing a broken leg, would be hard pressed to get treatment because the facilities that usually provide that are overfilled with COVID19 cases. My point is that we should specify when we're studying the virus' mortality rate from a biological perfective, vs the overall deaths caused directly or indirectly, from a sociological perspective. – j0equ1nn Apr 12 '20 at 21:17
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    You answer is contradictory. Birx clearly and unambiguously stated ...some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. The later quote you provided does not contradict her earlier quote. The Fauci quote about conspiracy theories has nothing to do about which deaths are counted or not, it's about the suggestion that the counting choices are made because of some hidden agenda. – President James K. Polk Apr 13 '20 at 13:25
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    @PresidentJamesMoveonPolk She clearly says "and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU", which is different from saying that any and all deaths of people with covid19 will be counted as covid19 deaths, no matter the circumstances. And attributing a supposed undercount to a hidden agenda is part of the claim: "There may be reasons people seek an inaccurate death count". – tim Apr 13 '20 at 13:49
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    There are two claims here for skeptical inquiry: 1) other countries are reporting fewer deaths than the US because they are counting deaths differently True or false. 2) Numbers are being manipulated to serve a hidden agenda. Birx first quote essentially says true to #1; her second quote does not contradict the first. Neither of her quotes addresses #2. Fauci's quote directly dismisses #2, so it's relevant, but it doesn't address #1. Your last quote shows that the answer to #1 is complicated but tends to contradict #2. – President James K. Polk Apr 13 '20 at 14:48
  • From these quotes it seems the overall answer is "Yes". The Fauci quotes and debates about over- or under-counting are not relevant to the question. Birx seems to confirm that yes, any death with COVID-19 is being counted as a death from COVID-19. – wberry Apr 14 '20 at 16:28
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    @wberry 1) that is very much not what she said. Conspiracy theorists are insinuating that any and all deaths for someone with covid are counted as covid deaths (including say car crashes or other completely unrelated deaths). What Birx is saying here is that any death were covid played a role - but may not have necessarily been the only factor - is counted. This is a reasonable approach to take. – tim Apr 14 '20 at 17:45
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  • The debate about over- and under-counting is at the center of this claim. Conspiracy theorists like Limbaugh or Carlson are only making the claim that 'anyone' with covid is counted to then go on claiming that deaths are purposefully over-counted because "there may be reasons people seek an inaccurate death count". The fact that this isn't the case is relevant to the claim.
  • – tim Apr 14 '20 at 17:46