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What's the difference between "дети бегают по магазину" and "дети бегают в магазине"?

EDIT: If you are about to provide some examples in your answers, please, observe the following requests:

  1. consider only those examples that contain a motion verb (like прыгают, танцуют, летают, etc. - not the verbs like думают, мечтают, находятся, etc.);

  2. avoid using unidirectional verbs (like бегут, плывут, летят, едут, несутся, etc.), use their multidirectional counterparts instead (бегают, плавают, летают, ездят, носятся, etc.)

  3. the noun following the proposition "в" should be in the propositional case ("ходим в магазине"), not in the accusative case ("сходим в магазин")

brilliant
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4 Answers4

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The two meanings are very close, with the "по" hinting at the randomness of the running, while the "в" stressing the location.

My translations of the two phrases to English would be as follows:

Kids are running inside the store. ("в магазине")

Kids are running around the store. ("по магазину")

Sergey Kalinichenko
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3

Rosenthal et al., СППЛР, 199.3

Смысловые различия находим внутри каждой из приводимых ниже пар:

  • гулять в лесу – гулять по лесу: первое сочетание обозначает действие ограниченное (гулять можно на небольшом участке леса), а второе – действие разбросанное (в пределах названного пространства);

which means:

Each of the following pairs exposes semantic differences:

  • гулять в лесу – гулять по лесу: the first phrase defines action confined in space (one can walk in a smaller part of the forest), the second one defining a scattered action (within the limits of the named enclosure)

This difference is more clear if we consider a spatially anisotropic object:

  • идти на улице / идти по улице
  • плыть на реке / плыть по реке

The first sentence may (or may not) suggest that you cross the street or the river, the second sentence strictly assumes that you move along the street or the river.

However, which is more important, is that по unequivocally makes the noun the direct object of the verb, while в / на may imply an adverbial clause будучи:

Compare:

  • Спортсмены бегают в зале // The sportsmen are running in the gym
  • Спортсмены бегают по залу // The sportsmen are running over the gym.

The first sentence may imply that they are, say, running on the treadmills, while being in the gym.

The second sentence cannot have this meaning.

Quassnoi
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  • I believe that the first paragraph answers the question. Could you please translate it into English? – Olga Sep 28 '12 at 15:04
  • @Olga: few respect Rosenthal as much as I do, however, I have a strong feeling that the rhematic role is much more important distinction. Ходить по лесу does not necessarily imply ходить по всему лесу (though всему can only be added to по indeed). – Quassnoi Sep 28 '12 at 15:38
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    I am going to strongly disagree with Rosenthal here: "гулять в лесу" does not at all strike me as "walking only in some small section of the forest", neither "гулять по лесу" would necessarily imply a "scattered kind of walking" to me. "идти на/по улице" and "плыть на/по реке" are absolutely irrelevant to my question and shed no light on the matter (plus, I don't know in what possible situation I would say "плыть НА реке" - it sounds wrong to me). Also, "Я ходил по Испании" doesn't mean "I walked all over Spain". "Я ходил по ВСЕЙ Испании" does. – brilliant Sep 28 '12 at 16:28
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Use of по assumes the importance, in the context, of the spatial extent of the place. Быть в магазине simply means that a person is within a shop and nowhere else. The shop is considered a point in space. Ходить по магазину assumes that the shop has some extent and one needs some time to traverse it. Compare also:

Пожалуйста, сходи в магазин.

and

Давай пройдёмся по магазинам.

The first sentence emphasizes the way to the shop while the second one the process of shopping, being in the shops or going from one to another.

texnic
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  • There are homonymous but different prepositions in в магазин and в магазине. Compare Ukrainian до магазину / в магазинi. – Quassnoi Sep 28 '12 at 15:45
  • "Быть в магазине simply means that a person is within a shop and nowhere else" - Why do you consider "Быть в магазине" in the first place? My question is not about "быть в магазине", but rather "бегать по магазину". "быть" is not an action verb, but "бегать" is. Plus, both "бегать по магазину" and "бегать в магазине" imply that there is some space in the store. – brilliant Sep 28 '12 at 16:39
  • @Quassnoi: This is true, however the difference in the meanings of the two sentences remains. In one case we have a point in space---the shop. We can be in it or go to it but we don't care about its size. In the other, the speaker in concerned with something which assumes physical extension. If you like, compare: на перекрёстке в поле поверните направо vs. пройдите по полю. – texnic Sep 28 '12 at 21:48
  • @brilliant: Because these two phrases assume this meaning. An announcement might state e.g.: В магазине запрещено кататься на роликах, находиться с животными и бегать. Here it only matters that you are inside the shop, not outside. The shop is a point in space. The phrase не бегайте по магазину has the same final meaning, but implies a different idea of the action. So in your question, I would explain the difference as I did. Another example would be пройтись по улице vs. находясь на улице. Or во поле берёзка стояла vs. по полю танки грохотали. – texnic Sep 28 '12 at 21:56
  • @texnic - "Another example would be пройтись по улице vs. находясь на улице" - Irrelevant to my question! "пройтись" is absolutely different from "находясь". "находясь" is not a verb of motion and doesn't imply any action. Please use examples with the same verb in both sentences! And also prepositions should be only "по" and "в" (not "по" and "на")! – brilliant Sep 29 '12 at 02:34
  • @texnic - "Or во поле берёзка стояла vs. по полю танки грохотали" - Again absolutely irrelevant to my case! "стояла" is not an action verb and it doesn't imply any motion. "грохотали" could imply some action, but again it's not a motion verb. Please use examples with the same verb in both sentences! And also prepositions should be only "по" and "в" (not "по" and "во")! – brilliant Sep 29 '12 at 02:35
  • @brilliant, I am trying to pass my feeling of the language in this situation to you. For this, different examples are of use. Obviously, the very same word combinations would be of little help in explaining the difference. And why do you say "should be"? Was it in the OP? I am answering the question "what's the difference". The answer is: in one case you are talking about a point-like place, in another---about some extended area. I think my answer is fully correct and nicely augments the as always scientific answer of Quassnoi. I do not think your reaction is in the style of SE. – texnic Sep 30 '12 at 07:58
  • (1) I am sorry if I sounded a bit rude, I didn't mean that. My insistence on having the same motion verb in both sentences of an example has the following reason: It is very easy to come up with two different verbs, which would fit the theory being proposed, while in the reality it would only be an illusion. For example, one could put forth a theory that "бегают по магазину" implies that the shop has no influence on the action, while "бегут в магазине" would imply that the action is somehow affected by the shop. – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 09:30
  • (2) The author of such theory could even come up with an example that would apparently support his theory: "Они говорят по телефону" (telephone is only a means of communication here, and the communication is not hampered by the telephone) "Дети разочаровались/нашли себе отраду в этом магазине" (children's reacting here, whether it's a disappointment or a delight, is directly influenced by the shop). However, this theory will be a far car from the truth. I admit I should've mentioned this in my question. I am going to do it right now. – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 09:31
  • (3) "The answer is: in one case you are talking about a point-like place, in another---about some extended area" – I don’t see why "бегут в магазине" couldn’t also mean an extended area. Please, read my discussion in comments with Quassnoi where I am talking about the shop being oblong, round or square. It seems to me that Quassnoi’s "treadmill theory" is more plausible, though I still have some doubts about it. – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 09:59
  • @brilliant: I very much like the example with treadmills, it illustrates exactly what I said. In general, I agree with what Quassnoi wrote. I just wanted to make the thread more readable for people who do not want to read that much or understand special terms which Quassnoi often uses. I also like short answers. So I added mine. In the end, there is no contradiction between what he and I have written. I also do not exactly understand whether you have got the answer to your question on not by now. – texnic Sep 30 '12 at 12:47
  • (1) "I also do not exactly understand whether you have got the answer to your question on not by now" - Well, not yet. Quassnoi's example with treadmills is good, except I don't think I would ever use the multidirectional verb "бегают" in reference to exercising on a treadmill - unidirectional "бегут" would fit in better (however, I wouldn't use either as "занимаются" or "тренируются" would sound way more natural to me in this case). – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 13:29
  • (2) However, in his example the words "в магазине" modify the object "treadmill" (=являются определением к дополнению "беговая дорожка"): "Занимаются где? -> На беговой дорожке; На (беговой дорожке) какой ? -> (На той, что) в магазине". In my question, however, – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 13:30
  • (3) the words "в магазине" modify the verb "are running" (= являются обстоятельством места действия, выраженного глаголом "бегают"): "Бегают где? -> В магазине". So, his example represents a case, which is quite different from the one that I brought up in my question. In fact, in the light of all of this, your "a point-like place versus extended area" theory sounds more relevant to my question. – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 13:30
  • (4) "I very much like the example with treadmills, it illustrates exactly what I said" - His example illustrates how, unlike the words "в магазине", the words "по магазину" can only modify the action expressed by the verb in my examples. What you said in your answer was totally a different thing. – brilliant Sep 30 '12 at 13:47
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I'm not sure but I think there is no much difference. Although probably "дети бегают в магазине" is to say where the children are (in the shop), while "дети бегают по магазину" is more like to say what the children are doing (running) and, especially, doing something wrong or unpleasant. Like "Я бегаю по магазину в поисках чего-либо" means that I going round between shop desks to find something. Also "не бегай по коридору" would be used to stop a child from running at all, while "не бегай в коридоре" is better to ask a child to find another place than corridor for running in (like street or so on).

Nick
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