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Let's consider this sentence:

I'm a member of the Japanese Renju Association.

A member translates into Russian as член, but the grammatical gender of this word is masculine, so I'm curious how I can make a feminitive of that word. You know, the feminitive of учитель is учительница, and the feminitive of директор is директриса. The feminitive of поэт is поэтесса, and the feminitive of акушер is акушерка. How can I make a feminitive of член?

I did some research and saw a suggestion that членша will work, but I couldn't find that word in dictionaries. Is it really a valid, accepted high-register word? And if there's no accepted high-register feminitive of член, I'm curious as to why.

Sure, I'm aware that I can simply say, "Я - член Японской ассоциации рэндзю," but I want to add a suffix to emphasize my gender. This is especially important if I want to say in Russian, "I'm one of the few female members of the Japanese Renju Association." My attempts to translate that into Russian have resulted in the following variants:

(1) Я одна из немногих членш Японской ассоциации рэндзю.

(2) Я одна из немногих женских членов Японской ассоциации рэндзю.

But my gut tells me neither of them is good, and I'm curious as to how native Russian speakers would put it.

Community
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Mitsuko
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  • No hyphen or dash is needed when the subject is a pronoun: "Я член Японской ассоциации рэндзю". I remember this well because I've been penalised for this in one of my Total Dictations: https://totaldict.ru/ – Sergey Slepov May 05 '20 at 11:52
  • is Японская ассоциация рэндзю an established term in Russian? There are numerous counterexamples of course, but societies like this are more often than not called общество or сообщество in Russian. – Quassnoi May 05 '20 at 13:21
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    I would consider участница (participant) instead of member: Я являюсь участницей японской ассоциации рендзю. Я одна из немногих участниц японской ассоциации рэндзю. You will need to decide based on context whether or not member can be substituted with participant. – Glory to Russia May 06 '20 at 13:38
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    @Mitsuko, offtopic, but кстати: in your educated optinion, what rendering is closer you your native pronunciation, рэндзю or renju? Do you feel comfortable using Russian spelling? (You must be aware of all this суси/sushi/суши issue). Perhaps in chat if you prefer. – Zeus May 07 '20 at 02:13
  • @Quassnoi : I saw Russians referring to 日本連珠社 by using ассоциация and федерация. The Russian renju players are united as Ассоциация рэндзистов России, but are subordinate to Федерация шашек России :) – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 12:42
  • @Zeus : You'd be much less caring about such details if you heard me saying シャシリク, hah :) – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 12:44
  • @Zeus : I cannot speak for all Japanese, but my wish is that people around the world pronounce borrowed words of Japanese origin in the way most comfortable for them. Which variant is closer to the original pronunciation shouldn't be the main concern. Comfort, easiness to pronounce, and phonetic harmony in the recipient language should be the top priority. Consider our words to be your friends, and help them assimilate into your language. – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 12:45
  • The phonetic rendering рэндзю sounds very non-Russian and can't make a catchy name in Russian, and this might be the reason why such a beautiful game didn't become more popular in Russia than it is now. – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 12:46
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    Lemme try to explain you how I see questions like суси vs суши vs sushi. Imagine you approach a Texas cowboy and tell him, "The name of one place in Texas is Thunderbird Bay. In your opinion, what should we call it in Russian - Сандaбёд Бэй, Тандебёрд Бэй, or what? Which is closer to the original pronunciation?" Try to put yourself in the cowboy's shoes, and you'll understand how I see questions like yours :) I'm a humble undergraduate student, and you want me to meddle into Russian affairs and tell you how you Russians should say things in your language :) – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 12:46
  • And if I were the cowboy, I'd reply with a smile, "Why not Бухта Буревестников, mate?" :) The Japanese word 連珠 (renju) has a meaning, and the meaning is connected pearls. The goal of the game is to build a five, a row of five pearls, hence the name of the game. Perhaps камушки or камни would make a catchier and more understandable name in Russian than any phonetic rendering of 連珠 does. – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 12:47
  • @Zeus : And if I were to choose the phonetic rendering of 連珠 for the Russians, I'd disagree with the currently accepted version, рэндзю. I wouldn't aim at the closest possible resemblance of the original pronunciation. Instead, I would try to come up with something easy and natural to pronounce for the Russians themselves. I would most likely suggest рензю. Much more Russian words start with ре than with рэ, and the middle д in the accepted version makes the word heavier. After all, you say гей instead of гэй, don't you? – Mitsuko May 08 '20 at 13:33
  • Thank you @Mitsuko. I generally agree with you that it's not a big deal and is a matter of the 'receiving' language. However, there is a problem of consistency. It helps when there is a clear system, so that we don't end up with Гудзон and Хадсон at the same time. In this vein, if we say Мицубиси, we shouldn't say суши. And when (if) we choose the whole system, we'd better consider all its pros and cons. – Zeus May 09 '20 at 15:37
  • As for more localised renderings, it's not necessarily desirable. Clearly culture-specific words such as рэндзю (including names) should have their specific flavour. There is beauty in it. But yes, sometimes we translate (say, Огненная земля, which is just Terra del Fuegro in most European languages). As for "гэй", the typical trend is for a word to be borrowed closer to its original pronunciation (yes, like "гэй"), but if it proves popular, it quickly gets adapted to more localised pronunciation, and in the end even starts to flex according to grammar if possible. Yes, we may see рeнзю later. – Zeus May 09 '20 at 15:51
  • рэндзю is OK for Russian speakers, just as дзюдо, камикадзе or фудзияма. But I second the question, what rendition would be closer to the Japanese original? – Anixx May 09 '20 at 20:50
  • @Anixx : I need to change my pronunciation of 連珠 in order to properly say рэндзю in Russian or renju in English, and there are different aspects of this. But let's say the Russian word рэндзю is closer to the original Japanese word than the English word renju is, especially if you want to hear that :) – Mitsuko May 11 '20 at 17:09

7 Answers7

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In Russian, член is only male, and adjectives referring to that noun should agree with it in masculine, too:

Великобритания — постоянный член Совета Безопасности ООН.

or

Великобритания — член ООН. Также она постоянный член Совета Безопасности ООН.

For your purpose, the best way out is to add the word "женщина", that is use a noun, not an adjective ("женский член" sounds like a weird obscene oxymoron in Russian):

Я одна из немногих женщин — членов Японской ассоциации рэндзю.

It can be said in a bit different way:

Я одна из немногих женщин, являющихся членами Японской ассоциации рэндзю.

Yellow Sky
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Please don't. Many feminitives sound like mockery (директорша, врачиха), unless they are well-established (учительница, официантка, вахтёрша). Even when fairly acceptable feminine versions exist, sometimes masculine are still preferred: женщина-повар (over повариха), поэт (over поэтесса), писатель (over писательница). The word поэтесса was despised by Anna Akhmatova (I find it fine by the way). "Писательница" sounds like she only writes children's books.

So I would go with:

Я одна из немногих женщин — членов Японской ассоциации рэндзю.

To even things out, some professions only have feminine names: няня, балерина, прачка. To refer to men, you would have to gather up your creativity and come up with something like мужчина-няня, танцор балета, оператор стиральной машины.

N.B. Orthography note: compound words like женщина-повар, мужчина-няня are spelt with a hyphen (-). But if either part is compound itself, а long dash is used: женщина — детский писатель, женщина — член Японской ассоциации рэндзю.

Sergey Slepov
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    I think the male ballet dancer is балерон. – Anixx May 05 '20 at 17:59
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    Could you point to a reference about the use of long dash with compound compounds? – Ruslan May 05 '20 at 20:21
  • @Ruslan, честно говоря, затрудняюсь найти. Но написать "женщина-член Японской ассоциации" рука не поднимается. – Sergey Slepov May 06 '20 at 06:59
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    Ну вариант с тире тоже звучит не очень: будто женщина — по определению член ассоциации. Его можно воспринять как «Я одна из немногих женщин, т.е. членов Японской ассоциации рэндзю». – Ruslan May 06 '20 at 07:06
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    Усатый Нянь? Судя по-всему, существует мужской вариант слова. Балерун? С прачкой я затрудняюсь. – dEmigOd May 06 '20 at 13:51
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    всё-таки балерун, а не балерОн – user7568519 May 06 '20 at 16:32
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    Officially, only "атрист балета". Everything else is very informal and often even derogatory. – Zeus May 07 '20 at 01:58
  • As someone who doesn’t speak Russian (I have no idea how I got here), can you explain to me why “Many feminitives sound like mockery”? Is it kinda like how if I called a female teacher a “teacheress” it would be like I was going out of my way to exclude her from the general category of teachers, as if she can’t compete with men? – gen-ℤ ready to perish May 07 '20 at 05:10
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    @gen-zreadytoperish: you know how in English there are different agent suffixes: "librar-ian, act-or, art-ist, treasur-er, police-man" etc? Now imagine how silly words like "libraror" or "polician" or "actist" would sound. The similar thing happens in Russian: there are dozen of suffixes to form feminitives, and they just don't work well with all words, mostly because people are not used to them. – Quassnoi May 07 '20 at 21:39
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    @gen-zreadytoperish. To add to the previous comment, its a cultural thing too. There are many words that have been historically used to refer to people of lower class or be outright derogatory on purpose. – Mad Physicist May 08 '20 at 16:36
  • @user7568519 In my life I heard only балерон. – Anixx May 09 '20 at 07:48
  • @gen-zreadytoperish think "policewoman". – Anixx May 09 '20 at 07:51
  • @Anixx Policewoman is a common word in English, and I’ve never known anyone to take offence at it – gen-ℤ ready to perish May 09 '20 at 07:52
  • @gen-zreadytoperish учительница (teacheress) is also common and inoffensive but informal. You would not meet it in official papers. In that case it looks awkward. – Anixx May 09 '20 at 07:54
  • @Anixx I’m confused about what you’re saying. Teacheress is not a word in English—it’s a hypothetical I fabricated for comparison—and I doubt it ever will be. I want to clarify again that I don’t speak Russian; I merely stumbled upon this question and found this cultural-linguistic perspective fascinating. – gen-ℤ ready to perish May 09 '20 at 07:56
  • @gen-zreadytoperish A kid saying "my mother is a policewoman" may be OK. A salary database or award list or an official address "policamen and policewomen!" maybe not. "Teacheress" maybe offensive. – Anixx May 09 '20 at 07:57
  • @gen-zreadytoperish учительница is not offensive, директриса may be. Officially it is only a word for a geometric term (directrix). Used for a female director that makes it funny. – Anixx May 09 '20 at 07:59
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There are tree facts we try to cram into a single sentence:

OP is member of Japanese Renju association
OP is female
Women are minority in Japanese Renju association

I believe the translation

Я являюсь членом японской ассоциации рендзю

is the most accurate equivalent of the original "I am the member of Japanese Renju association". Just like in English version, this version communicates only the first fact, disregarding information about OP's gender and the minority status within the organization. Even if an OP's gender is known, this would mean little to an average reader who is unfamiliar with this organization and renju as a whole.

To add the two latter facts, the original message should be heavily rephrased to point to them directly:

Я одна из немногих женщин-членов японской ассоциации рэндзю.
Я одна из немногих женщин, состоящих в японской ассоциации рэндзю.
Я одна из немногих женщин в японской ассоциации рэндзю.

The first sentence has been already discussed here. Here we use the noun-noun structure to use a pair of nouns as a single noun. In the second sentence, we use the verb-preposition pair состоять в as to be member of [some organization, club] and convert it to conjugated present participle состоящих в. In the third sentence, OP's membership in this organization is implied.

If we omit the information about the minority status of women in the Japanese Renju association, we can point to OP's gender a bit more subtly by using alternative feminine nouns. One way is to use the word участница

Я являюсь участницей японской ассоциации рэндзю.

While this is not the most natural way of declaring the membership, it communicates the gender and the fact of membership quite effectively. The word участница is not very commonly used with ассоциация, but can be found sometimes in the literature: Страны-участницы Ассоциации стран Юго-Восточной Азии

Alternatively, past participles and past tense verbs can be used to communicate gender:

Я была принята в японскую ассоциацию рэндзю.

Which is equivalent to "I was accepted to Japanese Renju association", heavily implying that the membership is not open for everyone and there is a certain application process. One can divert attention from this fact a little bit by adding extra information, like В 2007 году я была принята в японскую ассоциацию рэндзю.

Alternatives to accepted could be "вступила", "вошла", "была включена" which describe the membership in slightly different angles

brainkz
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There's no feminine for член apart intentionally comic and use exclusively as such "членша". The reason for this is that член is like ветка or отросток or ответвление - throughout the history of language the was no request for giving this words gender tint at all. Even for very radical pro-feminitive proponents it's just not something that is discussed right now.

If you still want to stress out that you are a feminine member of any community, association, club you can go with other words that (not completely though) substitute the word "член", such as "участница Японскою ассоциации рэндзю".

Every language has it set of rules by which it exists. This sets of rules are not set in stone and the evolve throughout the time, but what we have now is what we have now. Imagine someone from a language where verbs differ buy conjugation in present, like I don't know, Hebrew if memory serves me well, who will ask question like: "How to say "я состою в этом клубе" but use "состою" specifically in feminine. There's no way to do it.

If you want to specifically stress out that you are one of few women in the club you can say something like:

Я являюсь членом Японской ассоциации рэндзю. Нас, женщин, в клубе немного.

Not always something we are trying to express should be contained in a single sentence.

shabunc
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No hyphen, no dash. Just say Я одна из членов японской ассоциации рэндзю. Because член is used the same for both female and male I added одна which allows to point to gender. Hope you found your answer!

Не будь бараном
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I would suggest using "участница" instead of "член", but only in case, you want to emphasize gender. In all other cases "член" is okay. "членша" sounds funny though.

Alex
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For what it's worth, you could say: "Я один из женских участников ассоциации Х" if you would like to emphasize that you are a member and are female, or: "Я одна из участниц ассоциации Х" if you would like to use a feminine noun and pronoun while at the same time being more subtly about the fact that you are female, as opposed to pointing directly to being female by using "женских". My Russian is a bit rusty, so please watch out for any spelling mistakes in my versions.

Член probably best translates as member and there's no membress and equally no explicit female counterpart in член either.

shabunc
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juliUED
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