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The Russian language abounds in wise proverbs, but I am very much confused by some of them, specifically by those that appear to discourage proactiveness. I am at a loss as to how such a good thing as proactiveness could be viewed negatively, and this makes me doubt whether I get these proverbs right. I humbly hope that native speakers can kindly shed some light for a confused Japanese student.

Here are the proverbs:

(1) Проблемы надо решать по мере поступления. (Problems should be dealt with after they arise. Literally: Problems should be dealt with to the extent of their arrival.)

I have always believed that one of the most important things is to foresee potential problems and avoid them. In my childhood I was taught to play various strategy games (gomokunarabe, renju, Go, shogi, chess, draughts) to develop the ability to calculate many moves ahead. I was taught that this is a central ability in life. And the above Russian proverb appears to promote precisely the opposite view, apparently instructing to first wait for problems to arise and to only then get busy dealing with them.

(2) Не надо делить шкуру неубитого медведя. (People should not think how to divide the skin of a bear if it is still running free in the forest. Literally: One should not divide the skin of a bear that has not been killed yet.)

I have always believed that before you engage in any cooperation, you should agree with your partners on how to divide the future fruits of that cooperation, as otherwise you may end up fighting with your partners for those fruits. The above Russian proverb seems to instruct not to avoid that potential problem. More broadly, I was taught that if I do something, I should know what's in it for me. The above Russian proverb seems to say the opposite: first do something and then think or ask what you get for it.

(3) Пока гром не грянет, мужик не перекрестится. (A real man won't bother until he hears a thunder. Literally: Until a thunder strikes, a man won't perform the Christian ritual of crossing.)

I was taught to always watch for early, subtle signs of problems, especially in interpersonal relationships, and this Russian proverb appears to say that it is normal to ignore early signs and wait for an explicit and undeniable manifestation of a problem.

I tried to do my research by googling, but got even more confused by Russian texts, which appear to presume that the reader has Russian thinking patterns.

My question: What are the meaning and usage of the Russian proverbs that appear to discourage proactiveness?

Mitsuko
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  • @shabunc : What's wrong with my question? I am asking for the meaning of certain proverbs as they make little sense to me. My question is not about an opinion, but about the standard interpretation of these proverbs in the Russian language and their usage in the Russian language. I explained my own difficulties in understanding these proverbs, as those difficulties seem to stem from cultural thinking patterns. I strongly disagree with your labeling my question as "opinion-based" as I am not requesting any opinion. I am requesting an explanation of the logic and usage of these proverbs. – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 17:17
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    we sort of ending up in the same conversation again and again, one time after another. It's not a question about Russian language, it's not a question that can have single accepted answer etc. etc. Try to ask similar question on English SE and see how it will be closed for being off-topic. It's not like here are some special set of rules I'm trying to come up with. Tend to ask one thing per post, tend to ask a something that is a question about Russian language - not about the meaning of a proverb (unless there's a misunderstanding on a linguistic level), – shabunc Nov 03 '19 at 17:22
  • @shabunc I believe it is a question about the Russian language because I am asking about the usage of certain idiomatic expressions (or proverbs) in the Russian language. I want to know when it's appropriate to say, "Не надо делить шкуру неубитого медведя," for example. How is it not a question about the Russian language? – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 17:25
  • even if we agree on that - which is a subject to discussion - that doesn't cancel out the fact that these are completely different proverbs you've squashed into a single question. Do you actually believe that this question in it's current form would've been on-topic on any other language SE site? – shabunc Nov 03 '19 at 17:27
  • Also - check out your title - the title has nothing to do with what you claim you are asking. – shabunc Nov 03 '19 at 17:28
  • @shabunc : These proverbs have something in common: they appear to discourage proactiveness. This is the phenomenon I am asking about. The proverbs I listed seem very close to each other, at least in terms of discouraging proactiveness. An answer should not necessarily address each proverb, but rather should address the issue: how discoraging proactiveness makes sense for the Russian-speaking mind? – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 17:34
  • Once I understand that, I can figure out how to use such proverbs, which I believe are many. – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 17:36
  • @shabunc : >> Do you actually believe that this question in it's current form would've been on-topic on any other language SE site? << Yes, have a look at this question of mine: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/504940/what-is-the-english-equivalent-of-%e5%b9%b2%e7%89%a9%e5%a5%b3-dried-fish-woman . I listed there 8(!) different traits, unclear to English speakers, and the question is open. Now I am giving just 3 well-defined Russian proverbs known to any Russian and you close the question! – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 17:48
  • @shabunc : I've just edited the title to better reflect what I am asking and to demonstrate that the question is on-topic. – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 17:57
  • I have nothing to add if my fellow moderators won't agree with my decision that would be a development. – shabunc Nov 03 '19 at 17:58
  • @shabunc : Well, if the other moderators agree with your decision, then I will have nothing but to conclude that the policy of this Russian SE is quite different from that of the English language SE. For example, I posted a question with a detailed description of three different situations, and the question stays open and even received 26 upvotes: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/500341/what-are-the-words-for-people-who-cause-trouble-believing-they-know-better . So it is fine to give three different situations or proverbs if they are unified by a common idea. – Mitsuko Nov 03 '19 at 18:09
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    @Mitsuko: You got the literal meaning right for all three proverbs, if that's what you're asking. Solving problems one step at a time, counting your chicken before they hatched and closing the stable door after the horse has bolted are a thing, I believe, in any language, there is nothing specifically Russian in them. Those are metaphors for certain behavior patterns. Whether those metaphors encourage or discourage this behavior depends on the context of their usage. They could be used ironically, sarcastically or at face value. Provide the context and we can help you figure it out. – Quassnoi Nov 04 '19 at 00:37
  • @Quassnoi : Thanks a lot. Here is the context: https://russian.stackexchange.com/a/20680/11775 . In that answer, Shabunc writes, "А ещё проблемы надо решать по мере поступления. Возможно, вы будете писать всё время "он/она" и никто не оскорбится." Does he mean that one shouldn't bother until someone gets really offended? – Mitsuko Nov 04 '19 at 05:33
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    @Mitsuko you can ask me as well what I actually meant – shabunc Nov 04 '19 at 08:48
  • @shabunc : What did you actually mean by saying that proverb in that answer? Did you mean to say that one should not care whether people will be offended, until someone actually gets offended? This is precisely opposite to how I was taught to behave... – Mitsuko Nov 04 '19 at 08:57
  • It's not about let's wait till someone get offended - it's about that if something does not offends anyone we shouldn't try to come up with set of rules for situations that most probably won't happen. If it turns out that there is such problem - let's be back to discussion. – shabunc Nov 04 '19 at 08:58
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    (1) basically means "do not spread thin; concentrate at a single task at once"; (2) "Don't be too self-assured; remember that you can fail too"; (3) is typically used in a negative context. – Matt Nov 04 '19 at 11:41
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    @Mitsuko with all due respect, this is an SE dedicated to the Russian language; philosophical issues of whether or not some behavior is desired, some proverb is valid, and whether the boars are as dangerous as their perceived image, seem offtopic to me. But I'm not a moderator. Your question on English SE is a bit different in that you are asking for words to describe a certain situation, not arguing on the merits of a certain attitude. – Ivan Milyakov Nov 05 '19 at 01:52
  • @IvanMilyakov : My question is about the usage and meaning of three very similar Russian proverbs and thus is perfectly on-topic, I believe. It appears to me that my question was closed because the moderator felt somehow offended by the proverbs of his own language, although my perception may be wrong. – Mitsuko Nov 05 '19 at 08:48
  • @shabunc : I see that my reputation change as a resut of asking this question is +12 and that the question has a zero score, which mathematically means that the question got four upvotes and four downvotes. I think this indicates that quite a few people disagree with your assessment that the question is off-topic. – Mitsuko Nov 05 '19 at 09:17
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    @Mitsuko and quite equally as many agree ;) – shabunc Nov 05 '19 at 09:42
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    @Mitsuko sorry, but I disagree. As an example: the question "What's the meaning of the proverb 'An apple a day keeps doctors away' " would be perfectly on-topic. "Was there any historic reason to believe that apples have medical properties" less so, but IMHO acceptable. But "Plenty of ilnesses are unaffected by apples, and for a few of conditions apples are actually quite harmful, so maybe this proverb means that doctors are afraid of apples? but here's a video of a doctor eating apples so this doesn't seem to be the case" would be IMHO offtopic, and sadly many your questions resemble this. – Ivan Milyakov Nov 05 '19 at 09:50
  • @IvanMilyakov : >> and sadly many your questions resemble this << how did i manage to earn 3417 reputation points then :) – Mitsuko Nov 05 '19 at 09:55
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    @Mitsuko, for me your question is quite valid. Any language closely connected to it's culture. For short answer: you misinterpreted the wisdom. Russians live in a risky surrondings and thus "common sense" differs. Ex., there is useless to loose time for descussing how to divide bear if you most likely wouldn't kill it, or loose some partners in a process. First things first. So (1) - simple FIFO dispatchering, (2) - about risk management, (3) - (negative) constantation of "common man psycology" – ksbes Nov 05 '19 at 11:23
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    @Mitsuko is that your argument? "I have high reputation therefore none of my questions may be offtopic"? – Ivan Milyakov Nov 05 '19 at 11:40
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    Dear @Mitsuko, this is a good question -- and, in my opinion, quite on topic. I shall answer it in three installments. – Michael_1812 Nov 07 '19 at 01:01
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  • Problems should be dealt with to the extent of their arrival. We resort to this attitude only in a difficult situation, when snowed under an avalanche of things, -- i.e., when this attitude becomes the only practical and helps not to overstrain resources.
    • – Michael_1812 Nov 07 '19 at 01:03
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  • One should not divide the skin of a bear that has not been killed yet. This saying reflects the ancient superstition that you can reduce your chances for success by bragging in advance. It is a Russian analogue to the Yiddish saying (misattributed to Woody Allen) "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him about your plans."
    • – Michael_1812 Nov 07 '19 at 01:07
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  • Until a thunder strikes, a man won't cross himself. This proverb is always used as a reproach, not as discouragement. This is what you gonna say to a fool who didn't bother to prepare in advance to a bad turn of events.
    • – Michael_1812 Nov 07 '19 at 01:10