13

On this SE there have been many interesting questions about Russian equivalents of various idiomatic expressions and proverbs of the French language and other languages, and I decided to make my own contribution to this excellent genre.

Here is a Chinese expression:

能骗就骗 (Néng piàn jiù piàn)

The literal meaning is: If you can trick/cheat, then trick/cheat.

The idea is that there is no reason to be honest just for the sake of being honest. That is, if you can benefit from a dishonest action and know that you definitely won't suffer any financial, reputational, or other damage that outweighs the benefit, then you should act dishonestly. To put it simply, if you can cheat and get away with it, then cheat.

How is this idea commonly/idiomatically expressed in Russian?

Mitsuko
  • 11,281
  • 3
  • 34
  • 95
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Quassnoi Jul 01 '19 at 08:15
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Quassnoi Jul 01 '19 at 08:17
  • 1
    Please don't post answers or comments disputing how accurately does this particular saying reflect the "Chinese mentality" (whatever would it be). If you know of a Russian equivalent of this saying and the context it's properly used in, please feel free to post it as your answer, or upvote any of the existing ones. If you think that there is no Russian equivalent for this, post it as an answer, with analysis and references. – Quassnoi Jul 01 '19 at 08:30
  • 1
    If you think that the question is based on a wrong premise but can be improved, suggest an edit. If you think the question can't be salvaged, vote for deletion. Thanks! – Quassnoi Jul 01 '19 at 08:31
  • A lot of comments use unofficial slang or swearing words, but I agree that the closest is: Не пойман - не вор. Not caught - not a thief. There will be no punishment if nobody knows or if nobody cares. – magnump0 Jul 22 '20 at 19:18

7 Answers7

18

Не наебёшь — не проживёшь

This literally means "if you don't fuck people over, you don't survive".

The meaning of this proverb is slightly different from the Chinese one, as it's more about moral justification of cheating rather than pure utility, but otherwise I think it's a good analog.

Elaborating on some suggestions from the comments:

Не пойман — не вор

This literally means "you're not a criminal until you got caught", pretty much straightforward.

Поймал лоха — бей до смерти

This is an equivalent to English "never give a sucker an even break".

Готтентотская мораль

This literally means "Hottentot morality".

It's a racial prejudice, attributing self-centered view on morality to the Khoikhoi people. This kind of world view is best expressed with another proverb: "if you steal my cow, this is bad; if I steal your cow, this is good".

Quassnoi
  • 53,460
  • 4
  • 94
  • 183
14

Somewhat similar: «Не обманешь -- не продашь», that is, "no trick, no sale".

mustaccio
  • 2,096
  • 16
  • 25
10

I still think that this proverb is awful, however I can think of one or two expressions that at least partially have the same meaning.

One is "победителей не судят" - the winners can not be judged. It means that if you overpowered your rivals it's already doesn't really matter how exactly you've won. It's attributed to Empress of Russia Catherine the Great however most likely it's a historical anecdote.

The other one - "в борьбе все средства/цели хороши" or "цель опрадывает средства" - and this was said by Machiavelli. Well, Machiavelli was a cynical guy, pretty much a medieval Frank Underwood.

UPD: user @user1516873 suggested excellent expression - indeed, "не пойман - не вор" is exactly about if you were not caught - it's fine. See, after all we do have such phrase )))

shabunc
  • 37,983
  • 5
  • 90
  • 152
  • 4
    also "Не пойман - не вор" – user1516873 Jun 28 '19 at 11:10
  • that's an awesome addition! – shabunc Jun 28 '19 at 11:15
  • Thanks a lot, and let's see what other native speakers can add to your interesting answer. I already learned new expressions from it :) – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 11:20
  • 3
    "Не пойман - не вор" is just a way to formulate the presumption of innocence, a principle of justice, it has nothing to do with the advice to cheat which we see in the Chinese saying. – Yellow Sky Jun 28 '19 at 12:52
  • 1
    @YellowSky : Yes, I want a Russian equivalent of "cheat whenever you can." – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 12:55
  • @YellowSky while you are right, unfortunately de-facto it's used quite often also for justifying unpunished actions. – shabunc Jun 28 '19 at 12:56
  • I would like to make a brief comment on your opinion that the proverb is awful. I am just a naive student who is too young to make solid judgement on fundamental ethical questions or cultures of various nations, but I would like to point out that there is a widespread view in Asian countries that the Western culture is hypocritical. There is even a special term for this - "Western hypocrisy." This means that whilst the Westerners pretend and appear to be absolutely and unnaturally honest, the reality is that they cheat in situations in which they think they surely won't be caught cheating. – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 16:10
  • Sometimes they nevertheless get caught cheating, and there are numerous historical examples of that. – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 16:10
  • In my view, the Chinese proverb serves a couple of important functions. The first is to prevent people from being led by hypocrites to naively believe that one should always be honest and fair. Hypocrites will cheat whenever they can, and the proverb is a means of stripping them of their ideological advantage. The second important function is that this proverb helps you realize that other people may cheat, and thereby helps you guard yourself. – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 16:11
  • The proverb is, however, very dangerous because it can easily misguide people. In many situations they may miscalculate things and erroneously conclude that they can cheat and get away with it, and then they cheat only to get caught and face dire consequences. Sometimes they are caught accidentally, in a way they could not even think about. Sometimes they are given an opportunity to cheat as a test of honesty, and walk in the trap. And being caught cheating means ruining the reputation built over many years. – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 16:12
  • Moreover, the fear of getting caught can easily take a huge emotional and psychological toll and thereby have many indirect consequences, which is something many people do not take into account. – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 16:13
  • Nevertheless, I think that the proverb is important in that it teaches people that there is no reason to be honest just for the sake of being honest. The proverb just has to be properly understood and used wisely. They key is to properly understand the first half - "if you can cheat." In many Asian countries, the rule of thumb is to not cheat against people with whom you have long-term relationships (e.g., family members, relatives, close friends, colleagues), because the risks simply far outweigh benefits. – Mitsuko Jun 28 '19 at 16:14
  • 1
    @Mitsuko, no worries!!! In fact, after all answers provided (including mine) - I’ve realized that we have pretty much similar expressions, and I was wrong rushing into conclusions. – shabunc Jun 28 '19 at 18:53
  • 1
    @Mitsuko - also, thank you this additional information - it was very helpful! – shabunc Jun 28 '19 at 21:14
  • @YellowSky, "не пойман - не вор" is not understood as a principle of justice or presumption of innocence, at least in Russian language. Say, if you catch a classmate stealing something from the backpack of another and confront them, you may get get this cynical reply. Meaning, "yeah you caught me but first try proving what you say you saw to the authorities" it is rather messed up, maybe even more sick that the meaning of the chinese proverb. The chinese proverb really means," if the rules are not being enforced by the authorities or followed by the people, just go ahead." –  Jul 01 '19 at 11:27
6

To add to the other answers:

  • Если слышен денег шелест - значит, лох пошел на нерест. (If you hear a rustle of money, it means a salmon is going to spawn.)

"Лох" is an old word for a salmon, but nowadays is used as a synonym for a fool. The proverb connects these two meanings. A salmon is an easy prey during the period of spawning.

  • Без лоха и жизнь плоха. (Life is bad without fools.)

This is a view on fools as a source of profit.

  • Нет понятия "спиздили", есть понятие "проебал". (There is no such thing as "they stole", but there is such a thing as "you lost.")

This phrase is usually used with the addition "в армии" ("in the army") at the beginning of the sentence and means that every soldier is responsible for his own private belongings. The phrase is sometimes used outside the army, too, and shows the mentality that the guilty side is the victim because he made it possible for the crime to happen by not protecting himself and his belongings.

  • На дурака не нужен нож. (You do not need a knife to deal with a fool.)

This phrase is originally from a famous Russian cartoon for children, "Буратино", and is used to say that you do not need to use brute force to get from a fool what you want. You can just tell him any lies, and he will buy them. The original song from the cartoon is:

Покуда есть на свете дураки,

Обманом жить нам, стало быть, с руки.

Какое небо голубое,

Мы не сторонники разбоя:

На дурака не нужен нож,

Ему с три короба наврешь —

И делай с ним, что хошь!

Translation: "As long as there are fools, it is practical for us to live by trickery. What a blue sky, and we are not proponents of plunder: You do not need a knife to deal with a fool, since you can tell him any lies and then do with him whatever you want."

Community
  • 1
Sandra
  • 1,477
  • 7
  • 11
3

I think this one is closest to what you're trying to say.

"С волками жить - по-волчьи выть"

lit. (when living with wolves, howl like a wolf.)
Wolves are usually seen as inherently vile creatures. Here it may be used as a metaphor for keeping bad company.

more related proverbs:

"Где говорят деньги, там молчит совесть"

lit. (where money talks, the conscience is silent)
meaning: no point moralising, because all business is dirty business

"В деньгах родства нет" / "В игре не без хитрости"

lit. (there's no kin in money) / (no game is without a catch)
meaning: Every business transaction is inherently exploitative. The other person is trying to cheat you, so don't bother showing kindness / charity

"Дуракам закон не писан"

lit. (the law wasn't written for fools)
meaning: I'm too simple a person to bother with something as fancy as laws or rules.
note: the actual meaning is different, but it can be said in a sarcastic, self-deprecating way

SmthgScnng
  • 96
  • 1
2

The Chinese proverb really means, "if the rules are not being actually enforced by the authorities or followed by the people, just go ahead." This is a reality of human existence, like everyone knows jaywalking is illegal everywhere, but we all do it, depending on whether the other people do it or not in a specific town.

But, when would the Chinese use this proverb? Say a high school teacher finds out the contents of tomorrow's math exam and lets the students know it, and most students copy down the solutions, this is the situation where the proverb would be used to convince the moral doubter that it is OK. (Why would the teacher do it? Because teachers are paid bonuses for good performance of their students on state exams)

I can't think of a Russian equivalent, but maybe someone else can think of something better. Here is a Greek one: "When the cat is sleeping, the mice are partying".

Glorfindel
  • 1,031
  • 1
  • 11
  • 31
  • 3
    There is a direct Russian equivalent to the Greek one: кот из дома — мыши в пляс – Quassnoi Jul 01 '19 at 13:36
2

Деньги не пахнут [Money does not smell]

  • meaning you can use all legal, or semi-legal, or immoral ways of getting profit.
Andrei Kazarov
  • 21
  • 2
  • 2
    applicable, however it worth to mention that this is, of course, originally not a Russian saying. – shabunc Jul 01 '19 at 14:42