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It seems that the biggest British water service provider is on the brink of bankruptcy. The article pointed out that the government is ready to intervene and this is obvious, water service cannot be stopped, it would put the lives of millions of people at risk. The issue is that this give a lot of bargaining, or blackmail, power to the private operator. Nothing prevents them from extracting all the value from the companies they manage and them dumping the burden of the debt on the public under the threat of stopping an indispensable service.

Proponents of private services often argue that fraudulent bankruptcies would not happen because the provider would lose the company and all its value. But since all the value has already been extracted there is not much to lose and such cases do happen. Maybe that the nationalisation of the rail service in Wales is arguable because it was blamed on COVID-19. On the other hand it was followed by another case in Italy where the government overpaid to re-nationalise a road network left so much in disrepair that 43 people were killed in the collapse of a bridge.

Is there a way to prevent such cases? Can indispensable services in private hands really work without the risk of having to nationalise the losses every now and then?

mustermax
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    This question could detail a bit more how "all the value is extracted" (not being able to operate anymore is quite a loss) and how "the burden of the debt is dumped on the public" if the debt is owned by private creditors. All the government has to do is seizing companies on the brink of bankruptcy but not paying anything to the creditors for that. That should in principle be possible. No loss for the public. – NoDataDumpNoContribution Jun 28 '23 at 13:11
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution "if the debt is owned by private creditors. All the government has to do is seizing companies on the brink of bankruptcy but not paying anything to the creditors" The debt is held by banks whose shareholders are pension funds. So the loss would in any case hit the public. Note that both in the private companies and in the banks most of the value goes into bonuses and perks for the executives, the dividends are just a small part. – mustermax Jun 28 '23 at 13:16
  • Is there an area of the world you are looking for because in some parts of the world it is more common for things like that to be private then public. – Joe W Jun 28 '23 at 13:27
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    How do you define "indispensable services"? Do you include non-monopolized services like food sales? On the other hand, do you include companies that are deemed "to big to fail" not because they provide an essential service but because them going under would harm the entire economy? – xyldke Jun 28 '23 at 13:51
  • @xyldke If one supermarket fails there is probably another one nearby. But in a certain area there is only one water distribution network. Road networks maybe split into more networks, but the space available in any case would limit the number to a handful. The main subject is the water distribution, but limited networks like transport and energy can be included were they are near monopoly. – mustermax Jun 28 '23 at 13:56
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    Rail services compete against road networks. Even water can be distributed by tanker or trucks laden with water bottles. And on the other side, state-owned corporations can go bankrupt or cease operations if the state decides to stop funding them. – Stuart F Jun 28 '23 at 14:30
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    @StuartF Replacing the whole water supply of millions of households, businesses, agricultural and industrial facilities with bottled water delivered by vehicle isn't feasible. Losing the water supply in a larger geographic area would be a humanitarian and economic disaster. – Philipp Jun 28 '23 at 15:11
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    @Philipp Water production is indispensable but no private water service company is indispensable. Why not simply give the contract then to another company. I want to better understand the problem of the question. – NoDataDumpNoContribution Jun 28 '23 at 16:50
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution Not sure how it is around the world but in the areas where I have lived it is pretty much impossible for there to be multiple water companies as there is generally only one water source available and it doesn't make sense for multiple companies to control parts of it. – Joe W Jun 28 '23 at 18:38
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    There are also plenty of cases where big screw ups happen under nationalized companies, the recent deadly train crashes in India and Greece - both seemingly due to bad signaling - come to mind. While this is a good question - how can private sector greed be minimized in public services - it is important not to cherry-pick events to benefit only one side. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Jun 28 '23 at 20:00
  • Governments can collapse or be taken over by dicktators as well. – Therac Jun 29 '23 at 08:15
  • In the US there is the concept of a utility - a company providing a public service (water, natural gas, electricity) that is overseen by a public utility commission. That commission audits the company, approves rate increases, debt issues, etc. The situation outlined in the question is not possible in a utility structure. – Jon Custer Jun 29 '23 at 13:49
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    since all the value has already been extracted => what value would be extracted in the case of a water company? Are they going to sell the pipes to someone else? – JonathanReez Jun 29 '23 at 15:13
  • @JonCuster, It's not unheard of for PUC's to be run by former utility insiders, and not to act in the interest of the public. And the liabilities of the utility typically end up being paid by the ratepayers (for example, PG&E's liability for California wildfires). – The Photon Jun 30 '23 at 18:01
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    @JonathanReez, they maximize profit by minimizing maintenance. Not just on pipes, but on infrastructure like dams with huge potential damages in case of failure. Take the profits out as dividends, then demand rate increases when the deferred maintenance can no longer be deferred, or go bankrupt in the event of an actual failure, leaving the public to pay for the damages. – The Photon Jun 30 '23 at 18:05
  • @ThePhoton but didn't they have to pay to purchase the public utility? Presumably the purchase price should at the very least be equal to the value of the underlying infrastructure. Now, if the government sold it to a private entity for a price not matching the value of the infrastructure... it's a corruption issue, not a free market issue. – JonathanReez Jun 30 '23 at 18:12
  • @JonathanReez Being able to reclaim and sell the copper at present tied up in "POTS" 'phone networks is a big issue. Replacing it all with fibre works out cheaper, particularly since it means that the pumps that keep the ducts dry can also be sold off. – Mark Morgan Lloyd Jul 04 '23 at 07:51

4 Answers4

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Lots of indispensable services are provided by private firms: food, clothing, heating fuel, most housing, in some places water service, and in some places health care.

There are a variety of ways of preventing this from becoming a crisis.

One is competition. Food, clothing, housing, and actual provision of health care where it is private are provided by many firms, and generally speaking, not all of those firms will fail at once.

Another is regulation. Many "natural monopolies" like water service from a private company, are tightly regulated as utilities which locks them into a business model with a low probability of failure even thought it may not maximize shareholder profit.

There are also remedies short of nationalization if an essentially firm fails. For example, a receiver or trustee can be appointed for the firm, and/or the government can lend the firm money with priority greater than private creditors.

Of course, sometimes essential services are in peril no matter who runs them and no mater how well.

For example, the potato famine in Ireland would have caused death and hardship no matter who owned and operated the potato farms, although the harm certainly could have been mitigated with better government action to import substitute food.

A comment has noted that: "The nature of Irish agricultural land ownership at the time was, and still is, considered by many to be a major cause of the famine." This is a fair criticism. But, the point is that some problems are unforeseeable, or can no longer be avoided because society didn't take the actions it should have when it could. When this happens, a society is vulnerable to an exogenous force like a new disease or drought or weather change, or a war you aren't a part of that disrupts your supply chains. If your society faces a problem like this, you are stuck. There may be no way to meet everyone's needs once the problem is at hand with any legal regime. So, there will be at least some unavoidable suffering.

More recently, no health care response could have prevented COVID-19 from causing any deaths, although, again, there were better and worse possible responses.

ohwilleke
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    Trouble is that those who advocate the privatisation of services like the water service are the same who advocate against any regulation or so called red tape. – FluidCode Jun 28 '23 at 19:45
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    @FluidCode I don't see much agitation against utility regulation of natural monopolies for essential services even among hardcore deregulators. – ohwilleke Jun 28 '23 at 20:02
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    @ohwilleke While I agree with you for the most part, places such as Texas with massive energy grid problems does suggest that there are issues in places. They have done a lot to deregulate things and that has made it worse overall – Joe W Jun 28 '23 at 21:05
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    @JoeW Perhaps. Texas also withdrew itself and all the private companies in the state from the national energy grid for basically non-economic reasons, which in and of itself made it inherently more risky. – ohwilleke Jun 28 '23 at 21:08
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    Agree overall, private companies can do a better job in some/many cases. However, that is far from guaranteed. One risk with regulation is that the regulators have less legal firepower available than the private utilities, whose entire business model may rest on "milking" the public. As an example, look no further than the sorry state of US telecom providers, who repeatedly lie about their coverage and local monopoly status and spend mucho $$$ on lobbying and litigation. Striking a balance between doing right by investors and the public is not trivial and depends on a country's culture – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Jun 28 '23 at 21:13
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    The Great Irish Famine is a poor example of ownership being unimportant. The nature of Irish agricultural land ownership at the time was, and still is, considered by many to be a major cause of the famine. – Charlie Evans Jun 29 '23 at 14:04
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    Yep, I agree with @CharlieEvans and this example was egregious enough to warrant a downvote. Sorry, as I think it's a good answer otherwise. – Corbin Jun 29 '23 at 14:11
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    As I understand it, Ireland actually had plenty of home grown food to feed all of its people without imports, if only it actually kept all that food at home to do so. The problem was that all the non potato food was owned by rich people who preferred to export it for a good profit, rather than feed it to the starving peasants who couldn't afford to pay. – Douglas Jun 29 '23 at 20:01
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    https://www.ighm.org/learn.html A wide variety of commodities left Ireland during 1847, including peas, beans, onions, rabbits, salmon, oysters, herring, lard, honey, tongues, animal skins, rags, shoes, soap, glue and seed. The most shocking export figures concern butter. Butter was shipped in firkins, each one holding 9 gallons. In the first nine months of 1847, 56,557 firkins were exported from Ireland to Bristol, and 34,852 firkins were shipped to Liverpool. That works out to be 822,681 gallons of butter exported to England from Ireland during nine months of the worst year of the Famine.” – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Jun 30 '23 at 07:45
  • Id just like to add for the well literated and healthily vocabularied one glaringly obvious thing, that never, ever, comes up in these kinds of conversations. You can teach your children that its shameful to conduct business without integrity. You can show integrity in yourself for your actions, and expect it in others. We all can agree certain actions are socially unacceptable, and be vocal, if not militant about it should the need be. The plain and simple truth is that if people treated others, and the business they do, better there wouldn't be a need for the number of regulations we have. – Tank R. Jun 30 '23 at 20:08
  • Continued from above: You cannot regulate away shitty behavior. Full stop. However, it is possible to instill a sense of general morality of how the world can function for the betterment of all which will give the people the fortitude of character to not do these things that would threaten livelihoods en mass. Times change, bypasses need to be built, everyone cant be happy all the time. And yet, it is the people, raised without a sense of decency and self-respect that respect others so little they would pump and dump a city utility. And no regulations will ever force you to be a good person. – Tank R. Jun 30 '23 at 20:13
  • @JoeW Texas withdrew itself from the grid because of economic reasons. They didn't want to pay the cost to 'Winterise'" their grid that the tie in required because "We don't get winters like that down here" ... Turns out that they were wrong. – Questor Jun 30 '23 at 21:43
  • Another indispensable service that I've run up against recently is Adobe's "cloud". At least in the UK, it looks as though in order to prepare legal documents you have to buy an Adobe subscription since it's the only reliable way to merge/paginate an existing bundle of scanned etc. documents: professional lawyers don't balk at the cost since it's small change in relation to the fees they charge their clients. – Mark Morgan Lloyd Jul 04 '23 at 07:55
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Where I live there was no water system 50 years ago. The first residents in the area drilled their own wells. Sometimes a property owner might get their water piped from a neighbor, with the future of the arrangement not thoroughly planned for. Eventually the residents banded together to create a water system. They bought a used storage tank from a brewery, and maintenance and most repairs were by volunteers. As the neighborhood grew and the system aged and there were more demands on the volunteers, we eventually accepted a nearby city's offer to take over operations and needed upgrades, in exchange for water (fortunately the system's wells have a lot of excess capacity). We still own the water system, though, and are still outside the city's boundaries.

At what point during the neighborhood's development would private water provision be forbidden, if indispensible services cannot be in private hands? Would someone building a house many miles from the nearest city be obliged to buy all their water from that city? Would the local authority be obliged to provide water to any new resident regardless of how far away they are from government water infrastructure?

If someone building a house is responsible for their own water, they can look at how much it will cost to obtain it, and it will be one of the factors that decide whether it's worth it to build a house there. If the government has to provide water to anyone anywhere, then it has to decide where people are allowed to live. It seems a lot of discussion about whether services must be provided by the government assume the services already exist, and ignore the cost tradeoffs that people make when figuring out where and how to provide the services to begin with.

Lee C.
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    What you describe is a community owned service. Not a service handed over to a private (profit oriented) business. This answer is off topic. – FluidCode Jun 30 '23 at 12:16
  • I'm not sure I'd call it off topic,but certainly it's a long way from the situation in the UK that the question references. Here you'd need to apply for a abstraction license to create a bore hole if you want more than 20 cubic meters per day – Jontia Jul 01 '23 at 19:44
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    @Jontia I think the average homeowner in the western US with a private well, excluding farmers (none of my neighbors are), uses far less than 20 cubic meters per day, probably less than 2. – Lee C. Jul 04 '23 at 15:04
  • @FluidCode It's not relevant to the history of Thames Water, but I think that Thames Water was only an example, and that OP's question was broader than what's happening in London. Certainly it's relevant to the question of whether indispensable services can be in private hands, whether those hands are seeking to earn a profit or merely a homeowner looking to provide for their own needs outside public water infrastructure. – Lee C. Jul 04 '23 at 15:10
  • Good point. 20cubic metres is probably enough for 100 people's daily usage. – Jontia Jul 04 '23 at 19:07
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In theory it is possible, but there is a catch

There are many different ways for the management to suck out all the resources of the service provider. They could overpay suppliers and subcontractors or pay the market price for low quality maintenance. They could use the company money to trade on the derivatives markets or they could simply pay huge bonuses to the executives. Those are the usual ways, but with some creativity they could come with other tricks, like losing on purpose some lawsuits and paying a lot of damages, the share of the damages that goes into the lawyer fees is so high that often there is room for kickbacks.

The possibility of the financial collapse is always there, in order to prevent it there should be a strong regulation that includes at least:

  1. A tight limit on the debt the company can take in. A threshold like 20 or 30% of the total turnover. It must be very low because in case of emergencies it can easily skyrocket.
  2. A mandatory minimum spending on maintenance as a fixed share of the turnover, paired with external controls over the quality of the spending.
  3. A cap on pay and bonuses for the management and a cap on dividends.
  4. Severe penalties that include jail terms for managers that inflate the accounting in order to justify higher bonuses or debts over the threshold.

As things stand, in the Western world it is easy to circumvent those measures. Point 1, the debt limit can be circumvented by:

  • Do not prepare for unforeseen events. Wait for accidents to happen, turn each of them into an emergency and invoke one exception after another.
  • Hide the debt in subsidiaries or make complex financial operations like Goldman Sachs did to hide part of the debt when Greece entered into the Euro zone.
  • Invent phantom businesses like the Enron energy trading.

Point 2 needs a strong enforcement. A huge team of inspectors well prepared, but also the ability to punish the inspectors that do not do their job otherwise no matter how good is the team you put together over time it will become corrupt. Now, if you look at all the big financial scandals of the last fifty year you will see that the role of the control agencies involved goes from negligence to complicity, however it is very difficult to find cases where the inspectors were punished fro their failures or their complicity. This suggest that very little will change.

Point 3 can be circumvented in many ways, to see an example just look at how Carlos Ghosn raised his paycheck and got away with it.

Point 4 points to something very rare in the Western world. Except for few cases that make the news jail is for the poor people who cannot afford a well connected lawyer.

The catch

Until now this answer points to actual problems of the current world, not to a theoretical world. Someone might argue that a government strong enough and willing to impose and enforce the above mentioned regulations is more akin to an Alice's wonderland. But in theory is still possible. However in a country with such a government and such a strong commitment to defend the public from corrupt practices chances are that even a state owned company would be well managed by honest administrators. Even in this case mantra private is more efficient would lose weight.

Conclusion

As things stand the risk of a forced nationalisation of the losses of a private service will remain hanging like a sword of Damocles wherever there are privatised services, not just in the Western world. The real problem is that the mantra private is more efficient distracts the attention from the fact that fighting corruption should involve both private and state owned businesses.

FluidCode
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  • "overpay suppliers and subcontractors or pay the market price for low quality maintenance. They could use the company money to trade on the derivatives markets or they could simply pay huge bonuses to the executives ... like losing on purpose some lawsuits and paying a lot of damages, the share of the damages that goes into the lawyer fees is so high that often there is room for kickbacks" - all but the derivatives example can be done under public ownership as well? – Rob Grant Jun 30 '23 at 16:34
  • How would a government, made of people, be of such ability and will to regulate, to some measure of perfection, if the very things they are seeking to regulate are made of, from, and by the very same people that give raise to itself? The hard truth no one ever wants to approach is its people that are the problem. A corporate name does not decide to squander pension funds, a agency (which I remind you has none of its own inherently) cannot will itself into being to shake you down. Any more than this pistol can decide I need to die today. People, and how we treat each other is what is at issue. – Tank R. Jun 30 '23 at 20:21
  • @RobGrant Yes that is true. What I was trying to say is that the quality and efficiency of a service, the honesty of the administrators, all depend on the level of corruption of a country, not on whether a service is managed by the state or private. The assumption that private is more efficient makes little sense. – FluidCode Jun 30 '23 at 21:14
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I know this is as much opinion as anything else, but then the OP's question does ask for opinions about how to prevent these failures. And my opinion is controversial, since it rejects the orthodoxy, that private enterprises and 'The Market', that magical entity, will solve all problems. But please bear with me there will be plenty of opportunity to argue against me and vote me down.

It seems naive to me, to think that if we give large, public services, like health care, infrastructure etc to large, private companies, then they will magically make things both better and cheaper; and I think the crises in NHS, energy supply and now water supply demonstrate this point.

Try to put aside, for a moment, the beguiling ideas about the free market and libertarianism, that were introduced into mainstream politics by the likes of Thatcher and Reagan, and think about it. Private companies have one, overriding objective: to make money - as much as possible, for as little investment as possible; that is the fundamental condition under which they operate. A company that doesn't make money, simply dies.

So, how can a water supplier optimise their short-term profit? Obviously by under-investing in pipes, repairs and water treatment works, as well as raising prices, which they can do, because they have a monopoly and because the authorities have proven to be rather toothless. That, and of course building up debt.

So, rant over, what can be done to fix the situation? I would say, nationalise them - work out what a reasonable price would be (ie, ask somebody independent), then subtract the cost of repairs and investments required to get the whole operation up to the desired standard. And keep it nationalised to take out the profit motive, but also learn from how successful companies run their business; the problem that always seems to kill of public enterprises is some combination of bureaucracy and lack of real incentives, that invariably favour incompetent leadership and unmotivated workers.

That's all - now shoot!

j4nd3r53n
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  • This doesn't really answer the question. At a stretch, you're saying "no" – but you're not providing much evidence that there's no way to prevent these problems while still having things be private. Elaborating on your final paragraph would improve this answer. – wizzwizz4 Jun 29 '23 at 13:58
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    If the government isn't competent to inspect whether the private utility is doing maintenance, making it responsible for doing the maintenance and trusting it to inspect its own work will be a disaster. – Ben Voigt Jun 29 '23 at 15:50
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    @BenVoigt The trick, then, is getting a competent government - they do exist, though admittedly not in UK, currently. And 'nationalised' doesn't mean 'run by the government' either; it could mean owned by the state, but run independently, not for profit, and overseen by a separate authority with meaningful powers. – j4nd3r53n Jun 29 '23 at 16:27
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    Your complaint against the private utility was failure of government oversight. Now you're assuming competent government oversight (of a nationalized utility), which undermines your initial argument. – Ben Voigt Jun 29 '23 at 16:30
  • @wizzwizz4 I don't think my answer is as feeble as that; the OP's question does not have a simple answer. No doubt there are examples of privatisation working well, but equally there are some really glaring and expensive examples of serious failings, which IMO demonstrate that significantly stronger involvement of the state (and less political influence) in some form would be wise. I'm not naive enough to think that outright socialism would be the right thing, but the Thatcherism we've seen over the last several decades hasn't done much good. – j4nd3r53n Jun 29 '23 at 16:37
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    !@j4nd3r53n so your solution, then, is "get a better government." but won't a more competent government also be more capable of inspecting and regulating private companies providing utilites? – Esther Jun 29 '23 at 17:55
  • @j4nd3r53n The question is not "on balance, is it worth risking having indispensable services be private?". It's "can it be done? if not, why not?", which you don't answer. – wizzwizz4 Jun 29 '23 at 18:30
  • @BenVoigt I think we need to separate 'government' from 'state' - the government in most democratic countries changes as the wind blows, but the state apparatus remains largely the same. The oversight would fall under the state or an independent body, not the government of the day; and the competent government would make sure the resources were available for the nationalised utilities and the overseeing body to do their work. – j4nd3r53n Jun 30 '23 at 08:14
  • @wizzwizz4 The question may be 'Can it be done, yes or no?' - but the answer can't be as black and white as that, because reality isn't like that. So, if we were to look at it from a completely theoretical POV, then one could answer 'Yes - if [long list of idealised conditions hold]...', but under real-world circumstances I think the answer lies closer to no in most cases. – j4nd3r53n Jun 30 '23 at 08:19
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    @j4nd3r53n Saying that (with elaboration on those factors, and then why they don't hold in reality) would make an answer. – wizzwizz4 Jun 30 '23 at 14:51
  • @j4nd3r53n: I was using "government" in the AmE sense, where it means the state apparatus. "administration" is what we use to mean the political appointees that are replaced when the winner of an election in installed. e.g "the Biden administration" includes attorney general Merrick Garland. – Ben Voigt Jul 03 '23 at 04:30
  • @BenVoigt overlap and "revolving door" recruitment are big issues in several industries, in particular aerospace and nuclear in the USA. – Mark Morgan Lloyd Jul 04 '23 at 07:47