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China and India are not participating in the sanctions imposed by the Western world on Russia for the invasion of Ukraine. This has effectively made the sanctions much less effective, compared to what they could have been.

Of course these countries have massive profits from being the only ones trading with Russia, as they can procure cheap energy, and also have a monopoly on selling products such as cars, phones, computers, etc to Russia.

So the real-politic answer to why they are not participating to the sanctions seems fairly obvious.

But what is the political justification for this? Are they admitting that it is just about the money, or is there a politically correct reason for helping Russia to invade into Ukraine?

Noch
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user000001
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14 Answers14

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First, please understand that China and India are sovereign nations, not in the EU, not in NATO. They do not need to take a position. Just because you say they do does not make it so. *

Having said that, China's position is the clearest stated, so I'll quote them from April:

China

During a daily press conference, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said, "As the culprit and the leading instigator of the Ukraine crisis, the US has led NATO in pursuing five rounds of eastward expansions in the next two decades or so since 1999."

"NATO's membership has increased from 16 to 30 countries and the organization moved over 1000 kilometers eastward to somewhere near Russia's borders, pushing the latter to the wall," Zhao added.

Keep in mind that China is challenging the West globally. Why the heck should they back sanctions? Their hope is probably to get better access to Russian weapons technology and raw materials from an enfeebled Russia afterwards, not burning bridges.

Public sentiment seems highly pro-Russia there as well. But China is also careful not to break Western sanctions and land itself in trouble. They're just not going out of their way to add any pressure themselves.

China also likes to say that Western powers (the US foremost) are too bossy for the rest of world, so pushing back against a Western set of sanctions makes sense.

(Not that China is above using sanctions of its own when it suits them.)

India?

(From memory listening to a podcast):

  • Sentimental: they had friendly relations with USSR/Russia for a long time and not always good vibes with West.

  • Practical: they buy a lot of Russian weapons, which they need to counterbalance China. On the other hand, China is an even bigger Russian arms buyer, raising problems of conflicts of interest. And... who fancies Russian weapons much these days, after 6 months of crashing live demos?

  • Cheap oil. Probably very useful in a time of higher commodity and food prices.

Also, the US needs India to counterbalance China regionally and is trying to draw it into an alliance with Australia. That means the opportunity to "punish" India for not "following orders" is rather low. This is true in general for other "laggards" - the West needs to persuade them to isolate Russia, not try to bully them into doing so, which would likely backfire.

* In fact the West could take the opportunity to examine why the backing by Latin American and African nations has been lukewarm at most: we're not half as popular as we think we are. Some of that may be unfair, some of it may be for good reasons, all of it merits examining. But perhaps a good enough explanation is that it is an European/NATO theater war, not all that much of their business, except as it disrupts their economies.

Last, and I certainly don't mean it as my apology for Russia's behavior, from the PoV of many non-West-aligned countries and their citizens, the differences between Russia 2022 in Ukraine, USA 2003 in Iraq or NATO 2011 in Libya can be seen as rather subtle. Which brings me back to the West's need for more humility and empathy if it wants UN-level support in the future.

Italian Philosophers 4 Monica
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    who fancies Russian weapons much these days, after 6 months of crashing live demos Are there really any significant problems with Russian weapons? Logistics and army performance - yes, these were widely publicized. Also, most Russian failures occurred in the first month, but since then they have changed gears, and the situation on the ground does not seem very conclusive. – Roger V. Aug 31 '22 at 09:28
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    US was claiming 50-60% dud rates on missiles. Russia's air force has nowhere near the SAM-suppression capability of NATO forces and still can't operate freely over near area. T-72s are world class turret throwers. Communications needs to use in-the-clear or mobile networks. The Moskva, an air-defense cruiser, got sunk by 2 low speed Exocet-class missiles (or maybe it caught fire?). Need I go on? – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Aug 31 '22 at 09:30
  • Thank you for the input. Regarding the need for justification, I meant justification to their own populations, not to NATO or the EU. Coming from a small county with an aggressive neighbor it seems obvious that mortality would dictate that help towards Ukraine is the correct choise unless there is justification, but I guess that's not given if your county is under no threat by anybody. – user000001 Aug 31 '22 at 09:31
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    @user000001 I don't think their population would support a strong pushback against Russia. Simple as that. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Aug 31 '22 at 09:33
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    @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica T-72 was designed in... somewhere around 72, as for the SAM-suppression - it remains a great mystery why Russia have never seriously committed their airforce in Ukraine - again, it is hard to related it conclusively to weapons. No offense, but this is not very convincing. – Roger V. Aug 31 '22 at 09:35
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    No offense taken. But the proof is in the pudding: 2nd army in the world, 6 months, limited gains, high costs, on their doorstep. Let's add, but that's not an export consideration, that their organization around junior officers + troops, minus NCOs, is showing up to be a goof of epic proportions. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Aug 31 '22 at 09:40
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    @user000001 Neither China nor India are small and endangered countries so their sympathy might as well be on "regional power struggling against new world order" side of things. – alamar Aug 31 '22 at 19:44
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    It is worth noting that EU and NATO members are not explicitly required to take sides in this conflict either. – fraxinus Sep 01 '22 at 08:37
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    I would say, at the very least, the difference between USA 2003 Iraq and Russia 2022 Ukraine is very very subtle and not just from the point of view of non westerners. I mean the US was much better prepared an crushed Iraq quicker, but other than that? You also don't talk about Afghanistan or a number of others. – DRF Sep 01 '22 at 11:44
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    China would start a bad precedent if they treated Russia difference when they eventually do the same thing to Taiwan. – blankip Sep 01 '22 at 14:51
  • "China also likes to say that Western powers (the US foremost) are too bossy for the rest of world, so pushing back against a Western set of sanctions makes sense." Evil abusers question the authority of those who condemn abuse and evil. News at 11! – Mason Wheeler Sep 01 '22 at 16:42
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    An even more fitting example for the last paragraph is the 1999 Kosovo war. A region wants to separate from the country, referendum votes over 90% for separation, the country doesn't allow it because according to its laws the entire country should vote not only the region wanting to separate, and then foreign powers invade the country to support the separatists. – vsz Sep 01 '22 at 19:17
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    @vsz If you say so. A country whose leader at the time went on trial for genocide pertaining to that war. A country whose ethnic buddies committed atrocities like Srebenica and the siege of Sarajevo. Hardly a fitting example for a morality play, innit? But well in line with Putin and co's ridiculous claims. So there is a reason I did not use NATO's Yugoslavia missions as an example: the Serbs behaved so badly that no one else wanted to live under their tutelage. Mind you, that sums up Ukraine vs Russia quite well too, doesn't it? South Sudan secession also got support, same reason. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Sep 01 '22 at 19:35
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    @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica : you're right, history is a fairy tale where one side is always the perfect Good, the other always the perfect Evil, therefore only the Serbians ever did bad things in the Yugoslav wars, and in 2014 nothing happened in the Odessa trade union building. Even claiming that such a building ever existed, is a ridiculous claim and pro-Putin propaganda. But jokes aside, the purpose of this discussion is not to find out what we personally deem good or bad, but what the countries in question use as justification for their stances. – vsz Sep 01 '22 at 20:26
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    @njuffa I'll add raw materials. However, in some stuff, like jet engines, Russia is still ahead of China. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/china-copied-russian-jet-fighter-and-it-has-all-sorts-problems-36887 You also have to distinguish engineering design vs manufacturing savvy. Russia has developed tons of weapons over decades, but struggles making them nowadays and lacks native electronics. China can probably get quite far, once it has a good design to start out from but just doesn't have the weapons background of Russia. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Sep 02 '22 at 00:28
  • Historically, India has always tried to avoid taking a side in U.S. vs. U.S.S.R./Russia conflicts. They don't favor Russia over the U.S. anymore than they favor the U.S. over Russia. One point of contention they have with the U.S. is that the U.S. is a much too friendly with Pakistan (who was all to happy to help the U.S. against the U.S.S.R.) for India's liking (India's biggest international adversary is Pakistan.). They also have disputed territory with China, but that's more that they happen to border China and do appreciate that the U.S. does not recognize the claim.). – hszmv May 15 '23 at 19:27
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India was the progenitor of the Non-Aligned Movement during the cold war, they have a history of intentionally distancing themselves from this exact sort of situation. There has not been any concerted Western effort to punish India for this in the current conflict, so they lose nothing by maintaining neutrality and they get some cheap Russian exports to boot.

China is currently competing with the US and in a broader sense the West for global hegemony, it would be counterproductive for them to support the West in this engagement. Additionally, much like Russia claims Ukraine as its own and is willing to fight a war for its claim, China claims Taiwan as its own and is ostensibly willing to fight a war for it as well. If Russia is successful in conquering Ukraine, China may feel emboldened to conquer Taiwan.

Gramatik
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    "If Russia is successful in conquering Ukraine, China may feel emboldened to conquer Taiwan." - in a way, true, but isn't there a risky flip side to this? From China's PoV, it would not "conquer" Taiwan, as the CCP has (to my knowledge) never moved away an inch from the claim that Taiwan is a part of PRC. In contrast, as much as Mr Putin now claims Ukraine has never been a real country or similar, there have indeed been times when Russia did treat Ukraine as a foreign country. (Cf. e.g. political world maps published in PRC vs. Russia.) As such, if "Russia is successful in conquering ... – O. R. Mapper Sep 01 '22 at 23:16
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    ... Ukraine", wouldn't the CCP risk ending up in the hypocrisy corner for being ok with Russia taking parts or the whole of Ukraine by force - even suggesting Western powers to stop supporting Ukraine in order to quickly end the fighting -, but complaining about (as CCP loves to claim) foreign powers trying to split off parts of PRC? – O. R. Mapper Sep 01 '22 at 23:18
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    @Gramatik I don't think you can use what you see on a highly censored internet full of bot accounts and paid shills as evidence of "public sentiment in China support the invasion" There are plenty of pro-Ukraine comments too--they just got deleted and drowned by bots and shills. Chinese are not stupid, they know the history and they know what is right. 70 years ago Japan use the same excuse to invade China. – Faito Dayo Sep 03 '22 at 05:56
  • @FaitoDayo I never said there was "public sentiment in China to support the invasion", I do not conflate the goals of Xi/CCP and the people of China – Gramatik Sep 06 '22 at 14:01
  • @Gramatik sorry, reply to wrong answer – Faito Dayo Sep 07 '22 at 05:20
  • @O.R.Mapper, that's certainly an interesting perspective on the matter. Perhaps that is what China is saying to the US diplomatically (which of course won't be reported in the liberal media): you're happy enough to try and change the borders of China by promoting Taiwan separatism, why should we complain when Russia does the same in Ukraine? – Steve May 01 '23 at 12:54
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Although the practical stance of India and China is rather similar, declaratively (which is what this Q is about), India has been less willing to endorse the Russian claims, at least in official communiques.

India urged “respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of states,” called “for the immediate cessation of violence and hostilities,” regretted “that the path of diplomacy was given up” and urged the concerned states to “return to it,” and reiterated that “dialogue is the only answer to settling differences and disputes, however daunting that may appear at this moment.” India’s Minister of External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar reinforced these themes during his intervention in the parliamentary debate on Ukraine when, in a coded critique of Russian actions, he reiterated India’s position “that the global order is anchored on international law, [the] UN Charter and respect for [the] territorial integrity and sovereignty of states.”

But at the same time, their UN votes have been mostly abstentions

[India] has abstained from successive votes in the UN Security Council, General Assembly, and Human Rights Council that condemned Russian aggression in Ukraine and thus far has refused to openly call out Russia as the instigator of the crisis.

Generally speaking, the defense of India's position in the media has been left to unofficial sources, like former officials and so forth. E.g.

India not only depends on Russian weaponry, but it also relies hugely on Moscow for military upgrades and modernization as it moves toward self-reliance in its defense sector, said Lt. Gen. D.S. Hooda, a former Indian military commander.

“Russia is the only country that leased a nuclear submarine to India. Will any other country lease India a nuclear submarine?” Hooda asked.

Sushant Singh, a senior fellow at the Center for Policy Research, said: “India’s navy has one aircraft carrier. It’s Russian. India’s bulk of fighter jets and about 90% of its battle tanks are Russian.” [...]

Nath Misra, a retired diplomat and distinguished fellow in the Jindal School of International Affairs, said the U.S. hasn’t shown any willingness to provide technology transfers to India.

“I would like to ask our American friends: What kinds of defense technology have you given us? What the U.S. is offering is the F-16 fighter aircraft rebranded as the F-21. The F-16 is obsolete from the Indian point of view. We went for the Mig-21 in the 1960s because the F-104 was denied to India. We are seeing the same kind of thing,″ he said.

“Under the AUKUS agreement, the U.S. is willing to share the nuclear propulsion technology for submarines with Australia but is not willing to share it with India,” he added, referring to the trilateral security pact between the U.S., U.K. and Australia.

S.C.S. Bangara, a retired navy admiral, brought up the US betrayal that India felt in the '71 war, etc. They bring that up rather than the support they got in '62, but I suppose it's the more recent stuff that counts the most for them. Other sources [see 1st link] say that India takes US support against China for granted, given US' own interest, so they only care about not losing too much Russian support in this affair.

the gods from engineering
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  • "India takes US support against China for granted" - Not exactly. The Indo-US history on China is quite murky. During the Nehru era Indo-US relationships were at its peak. But the US was often irked at, what they considered, Nehru's "immature" non-aligned stance in the cold war. Some Congress politicians believe that the west deliberately didn't provide us military aid when requested to not upset Pakistan and in the hopes that a defeated and demoralised India would swing to the west. – sfxedit Apr 30 '23 at 15:39
  • They did use diplomatic and military pressure though to make sure China vacated most of the territories it occupied. And so, for a brief period India did align with the west and even helped the CIA to spy on China from its territories. But India realised that it couldn't depend on anyone for military help, and a relatively pacifist Nehru began a drive to modernise the indian military and start India's nuclear weapon program that really upset the US. – sfxedit Apr 30 '23 at 15:44
  • Many congress politicians also believe that Nehru getting involved in Sino-US politics, at the request of the US, turned Chinese opinions against Nehru and damaged Indo-China relations greatly. Gandhi and Mountbatten had groomed Nehru to understand the intricacies of international politics while Mao, a crazy and inexperienced dictator, lacked the political nuance to understand Nehru as a messenger and separate him and India from the message. – sfxedit Apr 30 '23 at 16:00
  • India also had good relationship with Russia, and when Sino-Soviet relationship began to deteriorate (USSR stopped helping Chinese nuclear program by the start of 1960s), a suspicious China believed that Nehru / India was behind this. – sfxedit Apr 30 '23 at 16:08
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Why would they need justification one way or the other? It isn't their fight.

The war is between Russia and Ukraine. China, India, and countless other countries simply don't have a dog in the fight. Why would they potentially harm their own economies over a war they have no part in and has no direct bearing on them.

You're assuming everyone on the planet thinks Russia did something wrong. Not everyone sees it that way. Some countries will support Ukraine. Others will support Russia. The rest will simply stay out of it.

mikem
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    Yes from several answers on this question it seems that many people don't think that invading another country with no provocation is wrong. This makes me sad about the world we live in. – user000001 Sep 07 '22 at 08:59
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    "Provocation" is subjective. I'm sure if you ask Russia, they would say they were provoked. Whether anyone else agrees is another story. The point is, Russia felt it had to act in order to protect it's interests. Like it or not, that's a right that all sovereign nations have. Keep in mind, countries have been invading each other for all of history for any number of reasons... provocation is only one of them. – mikem Sep 07 '22 at 09:23
  • @user000001: 1. Russia's invasion had the form of an intervention in an ongoing civil war. 2. There were multiple factors provoking Russia; provocation doesn't mean justification. – einpoklum Apr 30 '23 at 20:13
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    @mikem: Technically, world states don't have the right to invade each other in order to protect their interests. Doubly so if they are UN members. – einpoklum Apr 30 '23 at 20:14
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    World states have the right to do whatever they want to unless they have agreed not to in some other fashion. Sovereign nations are called "sovereign" for a reason. There is no world police, no matter how globalist some views might be. Peace is a negotiated construct and re-negotiation often happens at the tip of a sword. – mikem May 01 '23 at 23:25
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Important reason to join sanctions is the feeling about the own safety. EU obviously does not feel safe with the war going on so close to the border, neither they are sure if Russia would leave them in peace if allowed to take and keep the Ukraine. Severity of sanctions clearly correlates with the proximity to the Russian border and the Soviet past, with Baltic states going first.

Both India and China are probably large enough to feel safe. They can ignore this threat that is questionable for them and think how to benefit from the crisis instead.

Stančikas
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I can't comment on the Indian point of view, but my understanding is that the People's Republic of China is opposed to sanctions in general, not just in relation to the conflict in the Ukraine. This NY Times article quotes a Chinese official as stating

The position of the Chinese government is that we believe that sanctions have never been a fundamental and effective way to solve problems, and China always opposes any illegal unilateral sanctions

I have read (but do not recall where) that China argues that broad sanctions are a tool which primarily makes a population suffer, rather than achieving a beneficial outcome for anybody. I'm sure there is a rich literature exploring in what context and to what extent sanctions are effective.

Personally, I find arguments against sanctions to be quite convincing, and I suspect that a lot of human suffering has been caused to the citizens of eg Iran for little if any positive impact in return, and I find the broad and I would say unquestioning enthusiasm for sanctions in my country's (Australia's) public discourse disappointing

Bug Catcher Nakata
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    The thing is that China is opposed to things it calls sanctions. But it's quite happy to do the same either officially or unofficially. So it's like with "people's democratic republics" from the communist bloc, where "democratic" means one-party rule, which mostly means one-man rule, i.e. an Orwellian redefinition. – the gods from engineering Sep 01 '22 at 07:14
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    That's true, but I still feel that China's official opposition to sanctions, even if it uses 'economic coercion' which is really sanctions, still goes some way to explaining why one wouldn't expect it to participate in the very public sanctions against Russia, as the question asked – Bug Catcher Nakata Sep 01 '22 at 07:23
  • Well, in the answer you said you found China's argument convincing. – the gods from engineering Sep 01 '22 at 07:25
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    I find the arguments against sanctions to be convincing, made by China or not. Whether you can apply those arguments against Chinese unilateral sanctions is a separate questions – Bug Catcher Nakata Sep 01 '22 at 07:30
  • @Fizz Your second link says "There is however insufficient evidence to prove that these [...] are government-mandated sanctions and not simply the choice of individual actors". But you are right. If I were China, I would also deploy some Terminal Area Defense as a response, maybe even shot some of theirs down. Screw sanctions. – dosvarog Sep 01 '22 at 09:45
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    Yeah, I ultimately agree that China openly joining the "unilateral" US+EU sanctions would have been problematic for PR reasons for them (on top of realpolitik ones) given their usual declarative stance on sanctions (so +1). – the gods from engineering Sep 01 '22 at 11:34
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The simplest reason is that what you call the "Free World" is simply the American Empire to everybody else who isn't dependent on it. And regardless of whether you like it or don't like it, everyone has seen the effect of American policies on countries dependent on it like Afghanistan in the 2000s and Germany now, and states within it like California and New York. They (India and China), and many other countries, do not wish to live in a unipolar world where everyone is subjugated to the American Empire, therefore it is in their interest to remain neutral, because regardless of what happens, the war is seen as a step towards a multipolar world where India and China don't have to bend for US policy, since Ukraine is seen as simply a vassal state for America because of the colour revolution engineered by the US government in Ukraine in the 2000s.

ron nor
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  • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review – Alexei Sep 01 '22 at 04:50
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    @Alexei This reply DOES provide an answer to the question, explaining to the topic starter that their question does not makes sense in proper philosophical/scientific discourse and implies a lot of assumptions that most of the people outside of western worldview do not share and therefore do not indulge western people in their made up ethics favoring only well those same western people. Pointing out the equivocation in the question IS the answer to the question (and the only reasonable reaction to such question). – Denis Sep 01 '22 at 07:13
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    The constituents of the "American Empire" don't think they're part of an empire. It's almost like they're independent nations joining multinational organizations of their free will. Note the Iraq War, and the lack of support from most of this supposed "American Empire". I'm pretty sure that China knows the difference between Tibet and the Ukraine, and India the difference between Jammu and Kashmir and Ukraine. – prosfilaes Sep 01 '22 at 18:27
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    @prosfilaes "Almost like" but not. The USA has an empire, they just hate the word empire. The countries 'freely' choose to give super favorable trading terms to the country with a military budget larger than the next however many countries' budgets combined, for reasons entirely mysterious – Chris Huang-Leaver Sep 01 '22 at 22:50
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    "everyone has seen the effect of American policies on countries dependent on it like Afghanistan in the 2000s and Germany now" - would you mind to elaborate what that effect is supposed to be in "Germany now", and how it compares to "Afghanistan in the 2000s"? – O. R. Mapper Sep 01 '22 at 23:29
  • @Denis Yes, I was also specifying the political reason as well in the last part, which is what the asker specifically wanted, with an acceptable resource as proof. – ron nor Sep 02 '22 at 06:01
  • @O.R.Mapper It will require a much bigger article to answer your question specifically, so I'll summarize it as American politicians enforcing policies for personal benefit and American foreign policy (Like American senators urging Germany to abandon NordStream 2), and poor internal governance in occupied countries resulting in much worse forces taking over and getting access to military resources. – ron nor Sep 02 '22 at 06:02
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    @prosfilaes America had full support of many of these "independent nations" during the 2003 invasion, including United Kingdom, Australia, Poland, Spain, etc. I'm sure you and most Americans don't refer to it as an Empire personally because American has historically fought against them, but since the 30s at least, America has acted as an empire. I recommend this article https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/15/the-us-hidden-empire-overseas-territories-united-states-guam-puerto-rico-american-samoa

    and then reading James Burnham's The Managerial Revolution for an economic perspective.

     – ron nor Sep 02 '22 at 06:07
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    Re. your statement that "everyone has seen the effect of American policies" on Germany, California and New York: You really need to elaborate a) what these effects are, and also b) who is meant by "everybody". E.g. I live in Germany and have honestly no idea what you are talking about. (I have seen you mentioned North Stream 2 in another comment, but that is very much perceived here as a decision the German government made on its own.) – Jan Sep 02 '22 at 08:45
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    @Jan As I mentioned in that same comment you mentioned seeing, I cannot fully explain in a comment because I don't have to room to properly substantiate and expand on those reasons. However, for the NordStream2 decision being related to American pressure, I can recommend you to start from this article. – ron nor Sep 02 '22 at 10:09
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    @ron nor So your point is that "everyone" and "many countries" have seen something one cannot really explain (except that it is somehow related to some building project the Americans did not like and which was continued anyway)? Such things have happened before, but if this is such a case you might want to point out in your post that it is not entirely clear what everyone has seen. Otherwise it will be hard for your readers to understand your point. – Jan Sep 02 '22 at 10:30
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    Also, you have not yet explained either what your point re. California or New York is. I am sure you have something in your mind, but without you writing it down your readers cannot have any idea what that is. – Jan Sep 02 '22 at 10:35
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    @ronnor "America had full support of many of these "independent nations" during the 2003 invasion" - That depends on how you define "full support". The invasion triggered the largest wave of global protests in all of human history, including 3 million protestors in Rome, 1.5 million in Madrid, and 1 million in London. As a Brit, I can personally attest to how much Tony Blair's reputation tanked as a result of him agreeing to send British troops to join the invasion force. – F1Krazy Sep 02 '22 at 12:16
  • "Including United Kingdom, Australia, Poland, Spain, etc." Spain didn't send troops; the first three nations are the only three that sent troops. Denmark, Netherlands and Italy are the only other countries that supported it. Compare to the Gulf War where 38 nations were involved. – prosfilaes Sep 02 '22 at 13:18
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    Yes, the US can be characterized as an empire, but it's a very loose and often ill-fitting definition of the word. Note that the US completely changed its copyright laws in the process of joining the Berne Convention, that the US dropped out of the TPP and the other nations went through with it, that the EU rejects in many cases US food standards and food imports, etc. The US does not say jump and have the EU respond with "how high?". – prosfilaes Sep 02 '22 at 13:55
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    @ChrisHuang-Leaver The World Trade Organization, consisting of most everyone, including India and China, insists that all members give Most Favored Nation trading status to each other. Nobody is giving special trading status to the US, and the EU (including Germany, mentioned above as part of the US empire) effectively ban a lot of US agriculture by having different food standards, EU exclusion of chlorine-washed chicken being a notorious case. – prosfilaes Sep 02 '22 at 18:52
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    @F1Krazy The existence of Protests is irrelevant. Any major action taken by the government of a country has protests, but we do not characterize the country by what the people think, we characterize only by what actions were taken by the government. And during the invasion, these nations provided either active military support, political support, or financial support, or all three in the case of the UK and Australia. And every single leader in your country since Tony Blair has been an active supporter or protegee of Tony Blair except Boris Johnson, who was ousted by them. – ron nor Sep 04 '22 at 05:22
  • How are David Cameron and Theresa May "supporters or protegés of Tony Blair"? They're from the complete opposite end of the political spectrum to him. – F1Krazy Sep 04 '22 at 08:14
  • @F1Krazy I recommend not trusting mere party affliations as representative of the politician. For David Cameron, read this: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/david-cameron-truly-is-heir-to-tony-blair/

    I will agree with you about Theresa May though, I honestly forgot about her. She did oppose Blair's Immigration policy and attempted to finish Brexit.

     – ron nor Sep 04 '22 at 12:12
  • And here we have Putin himself saying that Germany made its own decisions re. Nord Stream 2: https://m.dw.com/en/ukraine-putin-says-germany-made-mistake-to-side-with-nato/a-63445847 – Jan Oct 15 '22 at 08:19
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China, India and Russia are important members of such organisations like BRICS and SCO. Sanctions against one of the members of that organisation by an other ones would harm that organisations or posibly even destroy them.

China and India are among the countries seeing the use of sanctions for reaching political goals criticaly. Specially China facing itself some western sanctian shouldn´t be expected to suport the West in imposing sanctions on other countries.

From chinese point of view it doesn´t make much sence to suport the West fighting Russia as China could be the next having conflict with the West. A posible place for such conflict could be Taiwan. But there are also some other disagreements between China and the West about Hogkong and other chinese provinces.

Also it should be kept in mind that both China and India have experinced the previous 2 centuries of western colonisation, so when the West telling that countries what they have to do it wakes not the best historical memories.

Also the fact that Zelensky openly suported Taiwan hasn´t made China a friend of Ukraine.

convert
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Of course these countries have massive profits from being the only ones trading with Russia

Remember the sanctions are a partisan initiative, not a UN resolution. Most world states have not imposed any sanctions on Russia (here). Zhang Jun, China's ambassador to the UN, describes the sanctions as follows:

Unilateral sanctions indiscriminately imposed by the United States and other countries outside the council mandate are entirely for maintaining their hegemony, technology, gold monopoly, and ideology.”

And while there is certainly extra profit from trading with Russia when it is under US/EU sanctions - I'm not sure the profits are that "massive".

also have a monopoly on selling products such as cars, phones, computers, etc to Russia.

Since most world states don't sanction Russia, that is not the case. Also, remember that states and private corporations operating in those states are not the same thing. In China there is perhaps more of a symbiosis, but in India somewhat less so.

So the real-politic answer to why they are not participating to the sanctions seems fairly obvious.

It is fairly obvious, but it's not the massive profit potential you suggest. The obvious reason is that, well, China has no reason to sanction.

You see, sanctions are a rather extreme act in international politics - and often a surrogate to, or a supporting measure of, conducting wars. The US and its allies, on one side, and the USSR on the other side, had imposed lots of sanctions as part of their cold war; but other than that, on the world stage, many-state sanctions are rare, and even then mostly limited to arms/military equipment. On this Wikipedia page you'll find that the prominent examples from recent years are UN resolutions against Libya, Somalia, Apartheid South Africa and a few other cases.

Add to that the fact it's doubtful that sanctions against Russia would be helpful to the situation in Ukraine. Now, perhaps you believe they would be helpful; but many, or most, outside of NATO do not share that belief, and the leadership of China doesn't share that belief, as evidenced by the quote above. Chinese President Xi put it rather bluntly himself, it seems, last year:

[Xi] also took aim at Western sanctions, saying such penalties were a “double-edged sword” that weaponized the global economy and would “bring harm to the people of the world.”

Instead countries should “embrace solidarity and coordination,” he said, while also touting China’s new development and security initiatives as blueprints.

This rhetoric has recently been followed up by diplomatic efforts on Xi's part to mediate between Russia and Ukraine; such an initiative naturally agrees better with a neutral stance of the prospective mediator state.

(By the way - one could argue that China might have better helped by doing the opposite: Threatening to sanction NATO countries. I'm pretty sure there would have been multi-lateral talks for settling the Ukraine question pretty quickly if that were to happen... albeit at great economic cost to the whole world.)

But what is the political justification for this? ... is there a politically correct reason for helping Russia to invade into Ukraine?

China's position is neutral. It is not "helping Russia to invade". Yes, it could have - in theory - acted staunchly to block the invasion, but that does not validate your description of the matter.

einpoklum
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    partisan initiative, not a UN resolution Sorry, this is putting an unrealistically high barrier to non-military action when a veto from permanent Security Council member can be expected as is the case here. Ask yourself, if the EU considered that the Israel-Palestinian situation had sufficiently deteriorated that a South Africa style package of sanctions was proposed within the EU, would you consider that illegitimate because the US vetoed it at the UN level? – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Apr 30 '23 at 15:36
  • @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica 1. Personally, I consider the UN an illegitimate body made up of illegitimate entities, regardless of its particular actions; but let's not go into that since it's a long discussion. 2. There's universal action and there's partisan action. I didn't say partisan action was necessarily immoral or unacceptable (although it often is). In the case of Russia, it's not even as though sanctions were proposed in the SC and failed due to a Russian veto. In fact, US diplomatic efforts to get non-NATO countries take a clear side in the Ukraine have been met with cold shoulders. – einpoklum Apr 30 '23 at 18:46
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    As for the Israeli-Palestinian situation - the UN legitimized a settler entity taking control of most of Palestine by force, legitimizing a "Jewish state" on a part of Palestine in which the settlers are about half the population and control under 20% of the land. It's as though the UN had decided to found Apartheid South Africa. The major powers play games at the UN, sometimes to people's benefit and sometimes at their expense. – einpoklum Apr 30 '23 at 19:06
  • Arab countries have also tried their hand at this via OPEC embargo and similar measures [also for "monopoly and ideology"]. Does China critique them for that? It's fine to reproduce the Chinese POV because that's what the Q is about, but in this answer you personally and uncritically endorse it lock, stock and barrel. – the gods from engineering Apr 30 '23 at 19:20
  • @Fizz: "Does China critique them for that?" 1. Maybe; have you checked? 2. Such an embargo is not about maintaining "hegemony, technology ... and ideology", and I'm not sure what the Chinese ambassador meant about the "gold monopoly". – einpoklum Apr 30 '23 at 20:10
  • @einpoklum Not telling you what to think of the UN, but you must surely be aware that Israel in general seems to hold a quite negative views of the UN, because it is supposedly "against them". Anyway, citing the UN in this context was one example. My larger point is that a state can't be forced to deliver goods and services to another state. If the West doesn't want to trade with RU, it... doesn't want to trade with RU. If you want to consider West refusing to trade with RU is only to preserve a monopoly&hegemony, you are also free to do so. Just like China can have its viewpoints. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Apr 30 '23 at 21:25
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    "because it is supposedly against them" <- It is customary in Israel to presume that the proper way to treat the state is fawning admiration + lots of arms and money. I mean, that's what the US does :-P Anyway, I don't see "the west" as that monolithic. I mean, the US (probably) thought it needed to blow up NordStream just in case "the west" wanted something a little different. – einpoklum Apr 30 '23 at 21:38
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    (By the way - one could argue that China might have better helped by doing the opposite: Threatening to sanction NATO countries. I'm pretty sure there would have been multi-lateral talks for settling the Ukraine question pretty quickly if that were to happen... albeit at great economic cost to the whole world.) This only works if the party that's being threatened feels they are weaker than the party that's doing the threatening. I doubt that is the case, so if China did this, we'd likely have a full-blown new cold war of mutual sanctions. – Allure May 04 '23 at 09:54
  • "This only works if the party that's being threatened feels they are weaker than the party that's doing the threatening." <- It works if the threatened party feels it would be worse for them to proceed with their course of actions than it would be to change course. Which is not the same as what you wrote. At any rate, that was just a fantastic what-if, so never mind. – einpoklum May 04 '23 at 11:44
  • @einpoklum: alas it doesn't really work like that. Also, I tried to entice people here to research the existence of China-OPEC criticism, but without much luck insofar. OTOH it's more sure that the US-China relationship has turned to a level of rhetoric resembling the cold war one. – the gods from engineering May 04 '23 at 18:18
  • You might be interested: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/68391/have-sanctions-ever-stopped-a-nation-from-starting-or-continuing-a-war – Allure May 08 '23 at 04:30
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Do not forget that the current Ukrainian government came to power as a result of the so-called Maidan revolution, which in Russia is called a coup d'etat. The West is very positive about this event and it is one of the main official reasons for supporting Ukraine. China's opinion on this issue is rather closer to the Russian one. After all, the associations for China are not the best here: the protests of tiananmen 1989 and the uprisings in Hong Kong 2014 and 2019. At the same time, the uprising of 2019 was inspired by the Maidan and some Maidan participants took part there. Based on this, Ukraine's victory is not in China's interests. Although Russia's victory is also not China's priority, its defeat will have rather negative consequences for China.

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As mentioned in another answer, China and India are members of SCO. In its joint statement, SCO sharply criticized the use of "unilateral" economic sanctions.

The ‘New Delhi Declaration’ released at the conclusion of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) Council of Heads of State meeting hosted by Prime Minister Narendra Modi has slammed the use of “unilateral” economic sanctions.

The criticism of unilateral sanctions by the Eurasian grouping comes against the backdrop of sweeping sanctions by G-7 nations against Russia over its special military operation in Ukraine.

CDJB
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The purpose of these sanctions is to support Ukraine, I can't say anything about India, but there is no reason for China to support Ukraine. Even if it is no longer in the foreground, China is still a communist country and is ruled by the communist party. However, Ukraine is now one of the most anti-communist countries where the communist party and all communist symbols were banned long before the events of 2022, which certainly does not bring Ukraine any sympathy from China. Anti-Chinese gestures and statements by Ukrainian politicians certainly also play a role. Zelenski's support of Taiwan, as well as Merezhko's recent statement, should be mentioned.

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    Supporting Ukraine is a stated purpose of the sanctions, but many, and probably most, people in the world do not believe the US imposes sanctions against its rivals/enemies in order to support struggles against oppression and occupation. After all, it has no qualms occupying foreign countries on flimsy grounds, nor about supporting authoritarian regimes' invasions of neighboring countries. And of course there is the matter of NATO involvement in Ukraine before the invasion, which makes the sanctions seem very partisan. – einpoklum Apr 29 '23 at 20:01
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Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa are strong allies in what is called the BRICS alliance. The BRICS alliance was started by Goldman Sachs in 2006. Their stated goal is to replace the Petrodollar as the world reserve currency.

On the Brics 2021 website, they list the three pillars of the BRICS alliance to include economic and financial concerns.

"To promote economic growth and development for mutual prosperity through expansion of intra-BRICS cooperation in sectors such as trade, agriculture, infrastructure, small and medium enterprises, energy, finance & banking etc. BRICS cooperation under this pillar is aimed to promote collaborative approaches as well as innovative methods for the attainment of Sustainable development Goals."

This is apparent in their partnership with the New Development Bank which funds multiple sustainable development projects in seven countries.

Kevin A
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There are thousands of examples when EU violates it's own "sanctions".

Putin's close partners still have Finnish or British citizenship and foreign property/accounts intact (like Rottenberg). Do not forget about their close relatives, large portion of them still have EU/US citizenship and property.

Thousands of Putins propagandists, who worked for decade (2014-2022) and helped him to strenthen his dictatorship fleed to EU, GB, Israel (in late 2022, when it was clear that there will be no fast victory), got citizenship and became so called "good russians".

So, answering your question: eastern people are more straitforward and are uncomfortable to participate in this mockery. As a proof - China actually do not buy much more oil or gas now and do not allow russia to build more pipelines.

jvmdude
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