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I'm thinking of countries with economic and social policies like Germany. We can easily observe that in most developed countries, the birth rates are dipping (surprisingly). To my understanding, it is the young who are working (and hence highly taxed) keeping the system afloat.

Suppose there is some point in the future where the age pyramid flips, that is old people become a majority; then, what type of policies and checks do countries and states such as these have to deal with such scenarios?

terdon
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tryst with freedom
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  • Related: https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/39816/what-prevents-a-country-from-increasing-its-welfare-budget-in-a-vicious-cycle-as/39820 – JonathanReez Feb 06 '22 at 20:02
  • Since in practically all countries there are many many unemployed people, the age pyramid cannot be the real problem - I suspect it's to some extent a red herring. – Dr. Hans-Peter Störr Mar 02 '22 at 07:12

8 Answers8

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Lots of countries are facing the challenge of an aging population. Basically the whole northern hemisphere does (with some exceptions, the most notable one being India). The only regions of the world where the population is still growing are sub-Saharan Africa and the middle east.

Possible measures to mitigate the problem are:

  • Raise the retirement age.
  • Support and promote part-time employment for people beyond retirement age.
  • Lower retirement benefits and elderly care expenses.
  • Raise the amount of money working people pay into the retirement systems. Either by raising the mandatory payments into the government-managed pension system or by promoting private retirement funds.
  • Increase birth rate by removing financial and logistic obstacles to live a family lifestyle. This includes things like maternity and parenting leave, family-friendly employment laws, family-friendly urban planning, subsidization of daycare, schools and higher education and financial benefits for families with children.
  • Permit and promote immigration of young workers from abroad.

Most countries which face this problem use a mix of these techniques.

Philipp
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    You do realize that basically none of these will both work and be accepted by the population of any country. Reforms of the system, for example, will get stomped on by the specific aging demographic that raises the issue. Increased birth rates cannot possibly work in time to rescue the system, since govt income would not rise for 20 to 25 years, and expenses would rise in the interval to cover things like schools, etc. Immigratiton of skilled workers who would make up the deficit could only come from other countries with the same problem. – Dan Feb 04 '22 at 18:54
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    "The only regions of the world where the population is still growing are sub-Saharan Africa and the middle east." U.S. population is still rising. The U.S. gained a bit over 10 million residents as a result of immigration and another net 10-11 million from births - deaths between 2010 and 2020, for example. Of course, U.S. population isn't rising anywhere remotely close to the rates in India, Africa, the Middle East, the Philippines, etc. – reirab Feb 04 '22 at 20:11
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    @Dan You do realize that some of these things are already implemented and working in some European countries (definitely not all of them). These trends are known for decades and some countries have implemented systems that remain financially sound for several decades into the future. Afaik Sweden is fairly future proof, Austria and Netherlands have honest plans for the future as well. – quarague Feb 04 '22 at 21:11
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    @quarague Working, you say. So the demographic bomb has been avoided? In which European countries? – Dan Feb 04 '22 at 23:52
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    A good answer, though I think increased automation and increased importation of manufactured goods have roles to play. – mikado Feb 05 '22 at 09:25
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    From Malthus to Ehrlich, there have always been folks predicting that a population bomb would destroy civilization. If amateurs on the sidelines can spot a potential problem, do you think that experts and professionals are going to miss it? Such folks haven't ever been perfect, but their cumulative mistakes total up to a tiny exception—not the rule. – J. Berry Feb 05 '22 at 11:39
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    @Dan: You should ask a new question about that. – Kevin Feb 05 '22 at 22:37
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    "Raise the retirement age" what an awful suggestion. You realize in US its already 70? Do you want people to literally work to death? – Zombo Feb 06 '22 at 19:04
  • I'd add deregulation of daycare to the list. A big problem right now is that its very hard to start a new daycare due to lobbying by big daycare businesses. – JonathanReez Feb 06 '22 at 20:03
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    @Dan "Immigratiton of skilled workers who would make up the deficit could only come from other countries with the same problem." Are you claiming that skilled workers can only come from countries where the birth rate is lower than replacement level? That seems easily refutable. – kaya3 Feb 06 '22 at 21:17
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    IMHO anything to do with population growth will just shift the problem to future generations (young workers also will want to retire one day). And the world's population has nearly doubled in the last 45 years... – Andre Holzner Feb 07 '22 at 08:04
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    @Zombo You do realise other countries than the US exist? In most EU countries and Canada, it's somewhere around 65. – Jan Feb 07 '22 at 16:48
  • @Philipp. You forgot to add the most important change, that is, to make society more equitable. We are living in a very wealthy, unequal corporately controlled world where billionaires run the show. – Beginner Biker Feb 13 '22 at 02:38
  • Since there are many many unemployed people in all countries - employing them would be a good solution as well. I rather think that the age pyramid is somewhat a red herring - when there are millions unemployed, the lack of able workers isn't the real problem. – Dr. Hans-Peter Störr Mar 02 '22 at 07:15
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Change the tax system from labor to production

Along with an aging population, productivity is rising in many sectors, and the productivity increase is often outstripping the wage (and hence income tax) increases. Many proposals for a robot tax aim at preserving human employment, but they might just as well fund the welfare and retirement system. The German term is Wertschöpfungsabgabe, or value creation tax, a term very similar to VAT.

o.m.
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    When larger and larger fractions of the population get their main income from govt sources, how will it work any better to tax the people who own robots than to tax the people who make stuff? – Dan Feb 04 '22 at 18:58
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    @Dan: I believe a robot tax is misguided, since I'd find it hard to define fairly. It is much easier to tax added value (VAT). Still, I believe VAT is somewhat unfair towards smaller enterprises, due to implementation details like having to pay income tax, and only being able to deduct VAT later, which drive up liquidity needs and compliance costs. – danuker Feb 04 '22 at 20:58
  • A country that taxes its robots unilaterally would most likely not do its economy all that much good and may very well not solve the problem either. Perhaps they could instead set rates collaboratively? But seeing how well international collaboration works in more practical cases like shutting tax avoidances by revenue shifting (all profits in low-tax countries), I am not holding my breath. Plus automation, and more generally, productivity, is a key ingredient by which high wage countries can compete against low wage ones. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Feb 05 '22 at 00:25
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    @Dan, taxing workers used to be a convenient means of taxing economic activity. If more and more economic activity happens without workers, then that base must change. Note that I'm not necessarily for a robot tax myself, but I recognize it as a possible answer to the problem raised by the OP. – o.m. Feb 05 '22 at 08:52
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    @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica, I think you underestimate the "negotiating power" of having a large consumer base. – o.m. Feb 05 '22 at 08:54
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    VAT has the big benefit that it's a sales tax, not a production tax. Production taxes favor imports and penalize exports - robots are even easier to move abroad. – MSalters Feb 07 '22 at 08:21
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Thinking about this problem in terms of taxation and welfare is something of a red herring; the problems occur regardless of the fiscal structure. Retirement is not about redistributing money but about redistributing production. Or, as user3067860 pointed out in the comments, sometimes output of production.

For everything a retired (or a working) person buys, somebody has to put in a corresponding number of hours of work, to produce it, distribute it, etc. When you have fewer working and more retired people, you have fewer hours of work available. Worse, you need most of those hours of work at nearly the same time the demand is there (you can't bake bread 20 years in advance!)

Importantly, this is true regardless of how the retirees pay for goods or services.

The underlying mechanism how this comes about varies. If you are using a US/German-style Social Security system, you simply have too few people paying in to pay out benefits.

If you rely on stock investments, you have too few working people buying stocks and too many retired people selling stocks, leading to a drop in stock values at the exact time the stocks are needed.

If you rely on plain savings, the same problem would come about through inflation.

Thus, the demographics problem cannot be addressed by shifting how people provide for their retirements.

Solution

There are several approaches to solving this issue, but each one of them tends to have problems of its own. That's why the demographic pyramid leads to such passionate political debates.

  • Flip the demographic pyramid back.

This can be done through increasing the birth rate, or through immigration. Increasing the birth rate is notoriously difficult, has a 20-year lag time, and many people feel that it has undesirable environmental consequences. Immigration tends to be politically problematic, and can negatively affect the source countries (brain drain).

  • Importing goods from other countries.

This is something most of the affected countries are doing on a large scale right now, but it only works due to huge wealth disparities between countries.

  • Increasing productivity.

This would usually mean, more automation. Aside from the increased energy use this would usually entail, this is probably the most long-term sustainable approach.

  • Accepting the problem, and living with it.

This is of course not a real solution. It means returning to a society with widespread poverty in old age.

  • Expecting young family members to provide for retired people.

Another approach we are currently taking. It reduces the productivity of young family members dramatically, and really shifts the burden from all young people to a relatively few of them.

Update: one important approach I forgot:

  • Increase retirement age. The challenge here is that this is often not possible for other reasons. In positions that involve hard labor (such as construction work), the human body often doesn't support a later retirement age. In other professions, we mandate early retirement for safety reasons (for instance, we do not allow pilots to fly past a certain age).
Kevin Keane
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    Why do you say that many people feel that increasing the birth rate has undesirable environmental consequences yet immigration does not? Do emigrants (and their families) to a country inherently have a smaller environmental footprint than people born in the same country?! – Ellie Kesselman Feb 05 '22 at 16:08
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    @EllieKesselman environmental problems are global. For example the global carbon footprint increases with the global population, whereas in theory it does not increase whether people live in country X or Y. This is not completely true of course, since the carbon footprint of rich countries is much higher than poor countries. – Erwan Feb 05 '22 at 17:01
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    Slight nitpick, it's not about distributing production, but rather output...if we invented a magical stasis field tomorrow, today's youth could "save" for retirement by baking their bread 20 years in advance after all. – user3067860 Feb 06 '22 at 05:48
  • @EllieKesselman That is really a loaded question, as many emotional factors come into play. But fundamentally the reasoning here is: increasing the birth rate leads to additional people on the planet. Immigration redistributes people, but does not add to the worldwide population. – Kevin Keane Feb 07 '22 at 03:01
  • @user3067860 That's a good comment, and I updated my answer. I qualified it with "sometimes". One area where I was too vague was that I did not distinguish between goods and services. Yes, a young person can build a house and live in it through the retirement yes. But the vast majority of consumption during retirement (or in younger years) is more akin to services that can only be provided at that particular point in time: rent, medical services, concerts, Internet service fees. In this context, I would also count baking bread as a service. The goods are often more incidental. – Kevin Keane Feb 07 '22 at 03:14
  • @Erwan you make an interesting point. Immigration from poor countries to rich countries is likely to INCREASE the global carbon footprint. That is a reason to discourage it. – Ellie Kesselman Feb 07 '22 at 06:04
  • @KevinKeane That is disingenuous: "fundamentally the reasoning here is: increasing the birth rate leads to additional people on the planet. Immigration redistributes people, but does not add to the worldwide population. " Once people emigrate to first world countries, they cease to give birth anymore? Similarly, people in poor countries are no longer having children? That is what you are suggesting. If not, tell me why I am wrong please. – Ellie Kesselman Feb 07 '22 at 06:08
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  • a US/German-style Social Security system,* - you put two things into one sentence that are vastly different from each other. The US 401k has no equivalent in Germany, even though they've tried to press through various similar systems (which were such failures that there are now lawsuits about rolling them back). Health insurance is nowhere near comparable, neither is unemployment handling.
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    Interesting answer and thought-provoking comments. Immigration has much more (albeit secondary) negative effects on the source country besides brain drain. Long story short, a portion of the problems (growth, economy, environmental) are shifted to the immigration source as people are taken from it. Seems most solutions mentioned don't look on a global scale - the problem is just shifted to someone else in another country or another time. (I don't have a better answer either...) – frIT Feb 07 '22 at 08:52
  • @EllieKesselman The important number is how many more kids than they would have had otherwise. From personal observation, people were going to have those kids if they stayed put or if they moved, moving doesn't increase the number of kids produced, it just rearranges where they are. (If anyone can find a citation for/against this observation, I would be interested.) (Whereas increasing the birth rate, by definition...hopefully we don't need a citation for that one.) – user3067860 Feb 07 '22 at 13:41
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    @EllieKesselman "Once people emigrate to first world countries, they cease to give birth anymore?" No more than they would have anyway. In fact, they probably will have fewer children than they would have had in the country of origin (because generally people in wealthy countries tend to have fewer children, thus the demographic pyramid issue we are talking about here). – Kevin Keane Feb 08 '22 at 07:05
  • @Tom "a US/German-style Social Security system,* - you put two things into one sentence that are vastly different from each other". They are actually very similar; in fact, the US system was modeled after the German one. Note that Social Security refers to a specific program (the equivalent of the German Rentenversicherung), not to other types of social benefits, such as 401(k), health insurance etc. – Kevin Keane Feb 08 '22 at 07:07
  • @frIT I would argue that most of the effects you describe are really a result of brain drain. It's not just that random people are taken from the immigration source, but rather it tends to be the best-skilled ones, the engineers, the doctors, the professors, who migrate. That said, the particular problem really isn't shifted; in the contrary. The source countries often have a similarly lopsided demographic pyramid, in the opposite direction: too many children, too few older people. If it wasn't for the brain drain, it would actually be a win-win. – Kevin Keane Feb 08 '22 at 07:31