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From journalist Nicholas Watt on Twitter:

With two Tory MPs supporting Theresa May’s deal she has one breakthrough: enough tellers for her #Brexit vote

I believe this is a reference to some system in use in the House of Commons. What is Mr. Watt referring to here? That two MPs need to be in favour to have a vote at all? Two MPs to count the votes?

(I'm aware that the tweet is humorous — but I don't understand the joke)

JJJ
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gerrit
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2 Answers2

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From Parliament's website.

Four tellers are required for a division to take place: two representing those voting for the motion and two representing those voting against. Two tellers - one from each side - are present in each division lobby to ensure a fair count. The result is then reported back to the occupant of the Chair, or the Woolsack, in the Chamber.

So to even have the vote the PM requires two publicly committed MPs on the Yes side.

Further definitions that may be of relevance for this answer can all be found on the same website.

Division

Divisions are used for counting those in favour or against a motion when there is a vote in the House of Commons or the House of Lords. The House literally divides, with members choosing to file through one of two lobbies on either side of the Chamber where they are counted and their names recorded.

Division Lobby

Division lobbies are the corridors that run along either side of the Chamber in both Houses. They are used to record the votes of members when there is a division. In the House of Commons the division lobbies are called the Aye Lobby and the No Lobby. In the House of Lords they are known as the Content Lobby and the Not Content Lobby.

Teller

Tellers are appointed to verify the count when there is a division in the Commons or the Lords and to report the result back to the House...

Tellers, who are often party whips, are not counted in the totals of those voting for or against a motion. They are, however, taken into account when a quorum is required for a division.

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Jontia
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  • I'm pretty sure that a way could be found to hold a vote, even if not enough MPs were prepared to act as tellers (possibly using deputy speakers if necessary). – Martin Bonner supports Monica Nov 15 '18 at 16:16
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    @MartinBonner I you cannot get even two MPs to support the measure then there is no reason for holding a vote, because it is evident that it has not enough support. – SJuan76 Nov 15 '18 at 16:43
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    Could you explain further what a 'division', a 'teller', and a 'division lobby' are in this context for readers who aren't familiar with British parliamentary jargon? – reirab Nov 15 '18 at 16:44
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    So what is the joke then? That she has 2 tellers, who would count nobody (because nobody else would vote in her favour); or that she only needs 2 tellers because an opposing view won't be tolerated (Hence there don't need to be 4 tellers)? – Robert Tausig Nov 15 '18 at 22:41
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    The joke is that it's a surprise she's managed to find two people, who will count nobody @Robert. – Ben Nov 16 '18 at 05:15
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    @reirab : When a vote is called, the MPs divide into 2 groups, one voting YES and one voting NO. This is commonly called a division. The Tellers are the men who count the numbers in each group, and then tell the House the result. The vote, when a division is required, is physically done by the Members walking through from the main chamber into the two division lobbies: a lobby is another chamber, located just off the main chamber, one of which is the YES lobby, the other the NO lobby. Those who enter the YES lobby are counted as voting YES, those who enter the other as voting NO. – Ed999 Nov 16 '18 at 14:45
  • @Jontia : Actually, no. The prime minister does not need to "find" 2 MPs willing to support the motion. The Government party nominates 1 MP to count the YES votes, 1 to count the NO votes (which 2 then can't vote themselves). It is the Opposition who put up the 2nd MP to count the YES votes (to check that the Government MP is reporting the true number of votes cast). This is the whole point of the joke: that the whole House can't produce even 2 MPs willing to support the motion. – Ed999 Nov 16 '18 at 14:59
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    @Ed999 The definition is taken directly from Parliament's website, but the situation you describe seems impractical. Many votes divide directly on party lines, it seems unlikely that house rules force the government and the opposition to each provide a rebel voter to act as Teller for the opposite Division. In any case, you are incorrect as a quick check of a random division on TheyWorkForYou shows. Each of the four Tellers on this vote selected entirely at random are all from the Labour Party, who were in government https://www.theyworkforyou.com/divisions/pw-2003-05-07-177-commons/mp/10001 – Jontia Nov 16 '18 at 16:14
  • Hi Jontia. You clearly don't understand the UK's political system. The Government nominates one of theirs to count the votes, but the Opposition suspects he might cheat, so they nominate one of their own to make sure the true numbers are reported. In the years when Tony had a huge majority, the rules were routinely ignored, there being no point quibbling about miscounts when the government clearly could not possibly lose any vote. The Opposition didn't bother about such trivial matters in those years, which are important only if the government has a narrow majority. – Ed999 Nov 18 '18 at 04:57
  • I can't imagine where you got the idea that any side must provide a "rebel voter". The Government nominates one of its MPs to do the counting of the YES votes, and another to count the NO votes. These two MPs do not vote on this motion, they just count up the total votes cast. If the Opposition wants to, it has the right to nominate one of its MPs to also count the YES votes, and another to count the NO votes. If you fail to understand me, perhaps that is because although I have answered you clearly and truthfully, this topic relates to a JOKE and the humour involved may escape you. :-) – Ed999 Nov 18 '18 at 05:08
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    @Ed999 Tellers votes don't count. In a close vote, which is the only time you seriously need the Tellers giving up an MP who would vote No to be an Aye Teller makes no sense. Here is a counter terrorism vote from September 2018. https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25342/wendy_morton/aldridge-brownhills you can see the Tellers for each division belong to the same party, once again proving your statement wrong. – Jontia Nov 18 '18 at 07:00
  • The result of using one Government teller and one Opposition teller, is that both sides have one MP stand out of the vote. Both YES and NO have one Government and one Opposition teller. Thus 4 MPs stand out of the vote, in all (which is exactly the same arrangement as "pairing", a commonly used device used to excuse an MP from physically attending a vote). Thus both sides (YES and NO) lose the same number of votes, since each side is using 2 tellers, thus the outcome of the vote is not affected. – Ed999 Nov 28 '18 at 01:08
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When a vote is held in the House of Commons, each question is posed such that it can only be answered YES or NO. The votes are counted by persons called 'tellers', who count the number of votes cast (for I'm told teller means counting, as in a bank teller, not someone who tells the MPs the result).

By tradition, two tellers are appointed for each side of the question: the Government party nominates 1 to count the YES votes and 1 to count the NO votes, and so does the (main) Opposition party (so 4 in all, 2 for each).

The joke here is that so few MPs are willing to support Teresa May's proposal, that she can't even find 2 MPs in the whole House (not just in her own party) willing to vote YES on it.

(Qualification: No joke is funny if it has to be explained to you.)

Ed999
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    "YES or NO": in the Commons, it's Aye or No. In the Lords, it's Content or Not Content. – Steve Melnikoff Nov 16 '18 at 14:52
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    According to Wiktionary, the etymology of teller is "From Middle English tellere (“one who counts or enumerates; one who recounts or relates; teller”)". Hence while they do indeed tell everyone the result, I'd suggest the name comes from their role as the people who count the votes. – Steve Melnikoff Nov 16 '18 at 14:54
  • "the Government party nominates": yes, unless there's a coalition, in which the two tellers could be from different (Government) parties. Could just remove the word "party" here. – Steve Melnikoff Nov 16 '18 at 14:56
  • Hi Steve. The persons who enquired here for advice needed it spelled out in simple terms, which I'm sure you'll agree is best. I do not quibble with your quibbling, but you are only clouding the issue. :-) – Ed999 Nov 16 '18 at 15:30
  • I certainly agree that we don't want to overcomplicate our answers. However, I also feel that it's important to be factually correct as well. In this instance, IMHO, removing the word "party", and dropping the description of the etymology of teller which may be incorrect, would both simplify the answer and remove possible inaccuracies. But I don't feel strongly enough to edit the answer directly, nor to downvote it! – Steve Melnikoff Nov 16 '18 at 15:53