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A friend of mine posted on Facebook about her recent election in Pennsylvania. The results page showed a whole bunch of results that are really, really odd to me as an Australian:

  • Justice of the Supreme Court
  • Treasurer
  • Coroner
  • lots of district judges
  • lots of school directors
  • lots of tax collectors

Most of the candidates are also listed with party affiliations. I've heard previously of people also voting for sheriffs or other police officials.

What's going on? Why are these public servants being directly elected rather than appointed? Surely these elections make these roles hard in terms of stability. And why are they politicised? Shouldn't judges be non-partisan, or at least as much as possible? How do you ensure the candidates are qualified and competent? Why make these government officials waste their time campaigning?

curiousdannii
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    Which municipal offices are elected vs. appointed really varies quite a bit. – PoloHoleSet Nov 13 '17 at 18:04
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    Possibly because the US is (supposedly) a democracy. It seems as strange to me that other countries are apparently content with such positions not being elective. As for being qualified & competent (let alone unbiased), how do you ensure that the people doing the appointing don't just appoint their friends & political supporters? (See e.g. recent news about some of Trump's judicial appointments.) – jamesqf Nov 13 '17 at 19:01
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    @jamesqf It's not anti-democratic to delegate the appointment of public servants to your local representatives when that's literally a core part of the role you elect them for! Safety comes through the entire parliament needing to appoint them, and the very loud noise from the law societies etc if bad appointments are made. – curiousdannii Nov 14 '17 at 01:11
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Sam I am says Reinstate Monica Nov 16 '17 at 06:34
  • It varies hugely by state, better to list a table. Don't generalize 'Pennsylvanians' to 'Americans'. The short answer is the US is a weakly federal country, whereas Australia and many other developed-world federal states are strongly federal. Add to that the US is not really one country at all, but nine separate countries cohabiting (very) uneasily under one federal roof. Really you're enquiring after "states' rights" and the delegation clause of the US Constitution, which is an entire topic... – smci Nov 16 '17 at 21:47
  • @smci Yes each state is different, but PA is only an example. I've heard the same thing multiple times before, PA was just the most extreme. I think states rights is a different issue. You can have strong states and a weak federation without directly electing judges and other public servants, as it is in many European countries. – curiousdannii Nov 16 '17 at 23:12
  • "What's going on?" Different political system obviously. Also democratic but less indirect, more direct. If this is better or worse... is a very interesting question but probably another one? – NoDataDumpNoContribution Feb 09 '18 at 09:20
  • To be honest, almost everyone just ticks the box that has an R or D depending on their preference. They know nothing about these local people. Some people follow city council and school board elections beyond party affiliation, but even that is rare. IMO, it's a terrible system because it assumes an educated electorate. Most people only care about federal positions (if at all) which runs counter to our founders' intentions. – Rubellite Fae May 02 '18 at 05:29

5 Answers5

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  • What's going on?

    This is a leftover from earlier historical tradition, which had lots of lower-level democracy.

    For example, coroners being elected was a tradition not just from early days of USA, but actually from English common law:

    Electing a coroner is a holdover from medieval English common law, where the coroner's job was to determine how and when people had died in order to collect taxes. That system worked in early America, too.
    And in a lot of places, if the sheriff committed a crime, it was the coroner's job to make the arrest.

  • Surely these elections make these roles hard in terms of stability.

    This assumes that "stability" is the goal. Often, the goal is accountability and responsiveness to the people that the public servant serves - which is much better achieved by election than either appointment or lifetime position.

    Look at it from risk standpoint.

    If you elect a bad person to the position, the downside is that you have a bad official for a couple of years, and can replace them with a good one next time having learned your lesson.

    If you have appointed bureaucrat in a position, that's forever, with virtually no recourse (yes you can vote against people who appointed, but due to diffusion, that's unlikely to succeed - that higher level election is likely to turn on much higher level issues).

  • And why are they politicised? Shouldn't judges be non-partisan, or at least as much as possible?

    • First, let's just agree that "non-politicized X" is a blatant fiction that doesn't exist in the real world. Everyone's politicized. Some people are better or worse at hiding their biases from others. Some people are better or worse at hiding their biases from themselves. But everyone has biases, especially political ones.

      As such, it's better to have someone whose biases are known and explored, than someone whose biases are hidden and unknown.

    • Second, this allows people to practice checks and balances.

      If your legislature/executive is all Democrat controlled, the official positions will ALL be democrats, appointed by those politicians and always siding with them, due to both partisan reasons and personal "I owe you for the position" ones.

      If you get to elect local officials, you can at least elect ones independent of higher level politicians, who might hopefully check their power ("yes, Mr. Pro-Cat mayor, I know you want me to arrest all dog lovers in town. Tough luck, I'm not anti-dog, I ran for Sherriff on anti-squirrel platform").

    • As an ironic side note, back when US was created, people were actually idealistic enough to actually try and avoid factionalism (as partisanship was known back then) in politics.

  • How do you ensure the candidates are qualified and competent?

    If you notice, these are all positions that are incredibly local. As such, the idea is that the candidates are well known to local community, and as such are pre-vetted - if not for their expertise then for their character.

    Which, incidentally, how "non politicized" side was supposed to have been ameliorated - the idea is to elect someone respected and with integrity who would at least try to do a good job.

    Additionally, what makes you think a local elected official is any better at vetting competence and qualifications of a candidate for official position than the voters? Elitist much? People in aggregate are rarely dumber than a random politician; AND don't have a habit of appointing corrupt officials under patronage, qualifications be damned.

    And ensuring qualifications isn't exactly rocket science: one coroner candidate says "I am more qualified because I finished forensics college degree from UPenn" in electoral materials, another says "I'm more qualified because I like cats". Bang, anyone but the most die hard cat lovers know who's qualified who's not of the two.

  • Why make these government officials waste their time campaigning?

    Because that's how constituents get to know them and judge them. That's really how representative democracy works.

user4012
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    Still - disregarding accountability and local democracy - it would seem like a plus if the coroner was someone with medical (and preferably medical examiner) background... and not the local undertaker or barber! – Baard Kopperud Nov 13 '17 at 16:40
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    @BaardKopperud - is there any data that shows that locally elected coroners are professionally unqualified? – user4012 Nov 13 '17 at 17:19
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    @BaardKopperud Again, back in the day logic applying, especially in small very local communities, the Local Coroner might have been the guy to say "He's dead Jim" in official paper work. Jim may have been riddled with bullets, is clearly dead to anyone who happens onto the scene (you thought I forgot a comma, didn't you), but you need someone to sign the legal paper work. It could also be that he is the administrator of the morgue... meaning he's the guy who runs the doctors who do the real work. Keep in mind, being a doctor with an actual degree wasn't much a thing until the 20th century. – hszmv Nov 13 '17 at 17:24
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    w.r.t checks&balances, questionable plausibility. If the town elected a single-party admin. they'll probably elect everyone else from the same party too. In other countries the low-level jobs are not direct political appointments anyway and will have an entire organization through which candidates advance normally. – Alex Celeste Nov 13 '17 at 20:09
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    @BaardKopperud, around here, the elected coroner isn't the guy examining the dead bodies. Rather, they're the person running the coroner's office, which is basically a management position. – Mark Nov 14 '17 at 00:21
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  • what makes you think a local elected official is any better at vetting competence and qualifications of a candidate for official position than the voters?* — literally every year there is yet another "folk wisdom" that turns out harmless nonsense at best. A medical specialist surely would be better at vetting incompetents. And even someone in a management position should have at least some clue about what he manages, or he is incompetent for the job.
  • – Alice Nov 14 '17 at 11:54
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    +10 First, let's just agree that "non-politicized X" is a blatant fiction that doesn't exist in the real world. Everyone's politicized. – WernerCD Nov 14 '17 at 12:28
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    This answer appears to assume that it's either the voters or politicians who appoint coroners, tax directors, or school directors. The former happens in the USA, the latter in some corrupt countries, but neither seem remotely desirable. Tax office employees are in the best position to rank job applicants for tax director. Teachers, school employees, and even students are in the best position to rank job applicants for school directors. Involving politics (either by appointment or by voting) in them is needlessly politicising a role that should be non-political. – gerrit Nov 14 '17 at 12:42
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Sam I am says Reinstate Monica Nov 15 '17 at 04:39
  • @gerrit - "tax office employees are in the best position to rank job applicants for tax director" - ah yes, the pipe dream of all worker drones - myself included :) -, that they know better who'd be the best boss. I'm betting that 80% would vote for the guy giving them the most lunch break time and less supervision, as opposed to best professionally qualified. Also, are there actually any jurisdictions where such an arrangement exists in practice? – user4012 Aug 04 '21 at 21:38
  • @user4012 I expect it should be pretty common in cooperatives which are, after all, owned by workers (and perhaps customers). I am not convinced that your bet is true. – gerrit Aug 05 '21 at 07:23
  • @gerrit - cooperatives aren't government jurisdictions though. This is about various government departments. Also, are there any reasonably commercially successful cooperatives? (by size and/or longevity)? Most of the ones I encounter are various half serious hipster things in Brooklyn that aren't exactly a model of success – user4012 Aug 05 '21 at 16:49
  • @user4012 I'm not aware of government agencies where senior managers/servants are formally elected by employees (but of course staff/union representatives are, and they may have real influence). I'm not sure what your measure of "commercially successful" is. If measured by "outgrowing the corporate owned competition", probably not. If measured by "financially healthy and long term sustainable", then yes, there are (the coop-owned newspaper I subscribe is small but doing OK since 1978; the Basque Mondagron coop has existed since the 1950s). – gerrit Aug 05 '21 at 17:06
  • @gerrit - the latter definition. I'll assume that not running something into the ground is "success" enough :) But also, managing a small coop is probably a far easier job than something a bit larger - it takes a different skillset as the scale grows. – user4012 Aug 05 '21 at 20:16
  • @user4012 Of course, most regular privately owned business attempts also fail. For each Amazon (or even each moderately successful company) there are a hundred that either fail or never grow beyond 3 people. It would be interesting to compare business success rates by ownership model (cooperative, family-owned, publicly traded); I suspect coops or family-owned businesses may be more risk-averse and thus less likely to collapse, but also less likely to grow huge. But that's quite far beyond the scope of this question or even this stack. – gerrit Aug 06 '21 at 07:06