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In Europe I lived in different countries and I was always able to vote (national and local elections in my home country, and local elections elsewhere) without having to do anything beforehand: the day of the election I present myself to the polling place, I show my ID and whatever document I might have received by snail-mail in the previous days, the personnel at the polling place checks that I am in the voting list for that place, and I am able to proceed.

The only exception is when I vote in a different place from where I generally live, and in these occasions I have to warn the town hall/government a few days in advance.

What makes this inapplicable in the US? What is the registration needed for?

Federico
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    I don't understand voter registration in the US either, however, doesn't the fact that you have a national ID means the government can automatically register you to vote once you are eligible? Isn't that how the voting lists you mention are created in the first place? – yannis Jan 27 '17 at 11:39
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    @Yannis I voted in the Netherlands and in Germany for the local town hall using my Italian ID, so not strictly. It is true though that in both cases I made my presence known when I moved there (also for tax purposes). But that is done only once, not every election. – Federico Jan 27 '17 at 11:42
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    I voted in the Netherlands and in Germany for the local town hall using my Italian ID. unless an italian is allowed to vote in elections in netherlands / germany, doesn't that mean this is some kind of fraud?

    – dannyf Jan 27 '17 at 12:31
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    @Federico voter registration in the US is generally done once, too, each time you move, not for each election. – phoog Jan 27 '17 at 12:48
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    @dannyf EU citizens have the right to vote in local elections in their place of residence. So there's no fraud: Italians are allowed to vote in elections in Germany or the Netherlands if they reside there. – phoog Jan 27 '17 at 12:50
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    @phoog that is something that was not clear to me. thanks! – Federico Jan 27 '17 at 13:46
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    "the personnel at the polling place checks that I am in the voting list for that place" How do you get on the voting list? How can they tell you're not on some other voting list, say in a different constituency in the same election? – user316117 Jan 27 '17 at 21:46
  • @user316117 At least here (in Finland) you get on the voting list by filing your new address. There is some lag in the system (at least there used to be, this may be oudated). If you move to a new place one week before an election, it may happen that you are only on the voting list of your earlier residence. That is not a problem at all, because we always have the option to mail in our ballot a week prior to the election (so they have ample time to relay the information about you having already voted to the officials managing the local voting lists). – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 27 '17 at 23:06
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    (cont'd) Anyway, a few weeks before an election all eligible voters get snail-mail information about the location of the voting station (one and only) where they are on the list. This really is that simple and more or less failsafe. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 27 '17 at 23:09
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    I second what user316117 said. How is being "in the voting list for that place" not the same as being registered? –  Jan 27 '17 at 23:13
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    @DoritoStyle You get automatically added to that voting list the day you turn 18 (or whatever the age of majority is, or possibly on January 1st of that year, I don't remember the details). You don't have to do anything yourself. That is why we think the US system is strange. I guess the problem is that you don't have a central registry there (federal or state level, makes no difference), so nobody has a database telling where everybody lives. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 27 '17 at 23:17
  • Anyway, I was planning on asking about this same thing myself. A bit of googling gave me this. I guess many details are explained there. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 27 '17 at 23:25
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    My understanding is also that in the US there is no population registry. Instead of maintaining a reasonably up to date database, the Americans put a lot of effort into a census every 10 years or so. I guess it is just their tradition to make this more difficult than necessary :-) Our way makes censuses totally unnecessary. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 27 '17 at 23:29
  • Manual single-purpose registration make vote suppression much easier. – jscs Jan 28 '17 at 00:25
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    @JyrkiLahtonen I think if you look at European history you might come to understand why the founders didn't want the government to keep records on all its citizens unless necessary. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 00:44
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    @Andy I'm sure there are valid historical reasons why this was not done in the US a couple centuries ago. Sorry about the little quib. After all, such registries are also used by tax and conscription authorities! In the current relatively peaceful times this is a non-issue for me personally (I served my time in early '80s). There have been times, when such registries could be abused.. However, some such registries are unavoidable. Even in the US the IRS knows a lot about most of you. As do the credit companies, and (globally) more recently Google. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 06:36
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    Anyway, when we the people have a degree of political control on what is on those registries and who can use the data, I am quite ok with having them. The pros outweigh the cons IMHO. And I am a little bit curious about why the US would not consider building such a registry nowadays. The union has been very stable for quite a while now after all – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 06:38
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    I every single country I know you need to be registered somewhere to be able to vote there, and come with an ID. The US seems to be actually extremely permissive on that subject and I don't get why there isn't massive fraud by the millions... – Eagle1 Jan 28 '17 at 10:58
  • Also a reason for registration: So we don't have people under the voting age (18) voting.....or dead people voting (has happened a few times in the past lol) Then again, we still use our stupid electoral college which is pointless and outdated. – NZKshatriya Jan 28 '17 at 14:35
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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – yannis Jan 28 '17 at 18:21
  • @JyrkiLahtonen The reasons are just as valid today as they were when the US Constitution was written. And no, tax and conscription (draft) don't use voter registries. Taxing is usually done via the SSN assigned at birth (assuming your parents applied to get you one, which is normal), and by law every man must register for the draft when they turn 18. Those are both separate processes from voter registration. Yes, the IRS and credit card companies and other agencies know about you in the US, but they typically don't share that information (sometimes by law). – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 18:32
  • @JyrkiLahtonen Just look at Brexit for an example of how quickly some things can change. People were fine with registries, and look how quickly Hitler rose to power. The union is stable, but Americans have a higher degree of distrust and skepticism when it comes to government to this day, due to the history of the counties founding and our culture. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 18:36
  • @Andy: I think your last sentence is the key. Americans distrust their government - we trust ours. I lived in the US for 4 years in the late 80's, observed this, and have been trying to understand the root cause of this difference. I am not sure what it is (I understand math better than people). May be it is the sheer size and diversity, and ... distance? After all, many European people distrust the EU not unlike many Americans distrust their federal government. I don't know the answer, but I am always a little bit surprised by the argument that the government could go bad... – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 18:52
  • (cont'd) I mean, it is not as if the US were about to turn into something like a banana republic run by a junta, right? – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 18:54
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    @JyrkiLahtonen Well, that's the point. A constitutionally limited government, a hard to change constitution, the bill of rights (free speech, gun ownership, due process, etc.), AND the citizens not trusting the government... the hope of the founders was to prevent just that. And governments historically do that; Greek democracy collapsed, the Roman Republic become the Roman Empire, democratic Germany became fascist when Hitler was elected, etc. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 19:02
  • And, just to make sure, the way we do it is that the same central registry is used by the various branches of government. So voting lists come from the same database of addresses used for taxation, draft/conscription, school districts (for children) et cetera. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 19:04
  • @Andy You are listing very rare events. And I fail to see why the remote chance of once a century upheaval should stop us running things as smoothly as possible. And, Hitler rose to power as a populist in a nation were the democratic tradition was still relatively thin, and the bad shape of economy left a lot of voters dissatisfied. Not because they had a central registry of people and control of private gun ownership (if they had that at the time - I don't know). – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 19:11
  • But, I guess we look at this emphasizing very different principles. I appreciate the time you put into answering my comments. Looks like the moderators think the exchange is too long, so may be we can return to this in the context of some thread. – Jyrki Lahtonen Jan 28 '17 at 19:14

4 Answers4

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In European countries it is usually mandatory to register your place of residence with the local municipality. Births and deaths also need to be reported. That means that the local municipalities have a complete list of their residents with enough information about them to know who is eligible for voting. So they can just send every person with suffrage their voting papers prior to the election.

Not so in the United States.

There is no duty to register your place of residence. That means if you want to be eligible for voting, you need to register voluntarily.

Philipp
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    This is also true in the UK. – Steve Melnikoff Jan 27 '17 at 12:46
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    Steve, which, the EU registration requirements or the passive system? I'm thinking you mean the registration requirement but because Philipp ended talking about the US, continuing reading to your comment, it almost sounds like you're saying the UK system matches the US instead? Please clarify :-) – JeopardyTempest Jan 27 '17 at 16:27
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    @JeopardyTempest I believe that Steve's comment was intended to convey that the UK more closely resembles the US in this regard. There is no mandatory registration with the municipality, so there is a need for voters to register to vote. – phoog Jan 27 '17 at 17:46
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    "There is no duty to register your place of residence." This is not true in all parts of the U.S. In Tennessee, for example, you're required to notify the government with 10 days of moving, so that your address records tied to your driver's license (or other government-issued ID) are correct. AFAIK, births and deaths are also required to be reported for similar reasons. – reirab Jan 27 '17 at 22:51
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    @reirab But you're not required to have a driver's license or state id, so its not really the same. You're keeping your driver's license information or state issued id information accurate, which is different then just informing the government that you live somewhere for no other reason than they want to know. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 00:46
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    @Andy Ah, it appears that you're right. I had in mind that it was required for anyone moving within or into the state, but the relevant law apparently only applies to people who have a driver's license. – reirab Jan 28 '17 at 05:17
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    As to why registration is voluntary, it has to do with the philosophy that citizens should never be arbitrarily forced to do anything without a compelling reason, and also that government records of any kind could be used for oppression. The same objections apply to many other ideas like gun registries. The nature of the federal system comes into play as well. It may seem odd that the states separately manage elections, even for national offices. – Todd Wilcox Jan 28 '17 at 05:22
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    This seems wrong. Doesn't USPS know where you live? Or doesn't some branch of the government necessarily have to know where you live? Otherwise how would they ever deliver (say) court papers to you? – user541686 Jan 28 '17 at 05:57
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    USPS doesn't send you mail; they deliver mail to your address that someone else gave them. As far as court papers go, for legal action, it's up to the plaintiff to find you. – nstenz Jan 28 '17 at 17:15
  • @ToddWilcox Exactly. The US was founded with the idea that government is evil; necessary, but evil, and thus its powers must be limited to protect the freedom of people. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 18:25
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    @Mehrdad No, they don't. They deliver mail to a building, but when you move you never inform the USPS. You just tell people what your address is, and people write your name above the address. You can tell them to forward your mail if you move for your convince, but even that is for a limited time (and presumably expires after a time). But if i let a friend stay with me for a few weeks, and his friend knows, they can address mail to him at my address and it makes no difference to the USPS. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 18:27
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    @Andy: So what about the court thing I just mentioned? – user541686 Jan 28 '17 at 20:09
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    @mehrdad The court needs to know your address, or someone needs to provide it. This can be the person suing you that provides it, the police look at your id it you have it on you, they might have your last known address. They can ask relatives where you live and work, or it they know who your friends are etc. The person that serves the papers is responsible for finding you. – Andy Jan 28 '17 at 20:16
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I will add to Phillipp's comment. Registration in the US is basically on the honor system. Sometimes you need ID, sometimes you don't. You can register online in many locales. Sometimes you just need a utility bill. Obviously this in no way confirms identity or voter eligibility.

What happens next is that the name is checked against federal databases, like our Social Security System to see if you exist (most Americans are in that system but it is not required), the FBIs for criminality (some ex-felons are not allowed to vote), etc. etc. There's even a database for dead people, the Social Security Death Index, that's notoriously shoddy. In Minnesota, 8 databases are used to determine voter eligibility and identity.

An issue does arise with same-day voter registration in Minnesota, meaning you register and vote in a federal election the same day. None of the checks occur prior to voting. Statute allows 42 days for registration processing. Requiring provisional balloting in these instances for such votes is a partial step in reducing voter fraud. Provisional ballots come under heightened scrutiny if the vote totals are within the range requiring mandatory recounts, usually just a few percentage points. But historically, 15-20% of the total voters avail themselves of same day voter registration. Other states have this practice too.

So the purpose of voter registration with massive loopholes like Minnesota's? Seems to me to give a patina of respectability over a very flawed system.

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    if I read your post correctly, you're telling me how registration works, not why it is necessary in the US. – Federico Jan 27 '17 at 13:06
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    @Federico it's necessary to prevent fraud, unfortunately that's not the way it's designed. –  Jan 27 '17 at 13:13
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    @KDog You could mention the cases of Vermont, Oregon, California, and West Virginia, all of which have some form of automatic voter registration and are meant to simplify the process for voters as well as provide a certain level of accountability to the registration process itself. You could also mention that many same-day voter registrations don't submit a ballot when they vote, they submit a provisional ballot that, if a recount occurs or is necessary, receive stricter scrutiny, and is another layer of protection against fraud. –  Jan 27 '17 at 13:40
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    @JeffLambert Not familiar with automatic registration, and the provisional ballots usage point is a good one. –  Jan 27 '17 at 13:47
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    @JeffLambert added that point about provisional ballots. Do you have source material on automatic registration? –  Jan 27 '17 at 16:21
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    @notstoreboughtdirt most states offer registration through the DMV in compliance with the so-called "motor voter law." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Act_of_1993. But presumably only those who have documented that they are US citizens are added to the voter rolls, not just "anyone getting a new ID." – phoog Jan 27 '17 at 17:49
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    @KDog Here is the text of the West Virginia law, here is a WV Public Broadcasting post about it. Here is a page from Oregon Secretary of State website that has information on their procedures. –  Jan 27 '17 at 20:42
  • "most Americans are in that system [social security] but it is not required" Sadly, opting out of SS is easier said than done for citizens who have jobs... – reirab Jan 27 '17 at 23:08
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Article One, Section 4, Clause 1 of the US Constitution:

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

Congress has enacted laws to ensure some level of regularity in federal elections ("Motor Voter" registration, elections on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, campaign finance restrictions, etc.), but most decisions are left up to individual states for both political reasons and as an expression of federalism.

This is why each state has different laws regarding registration deadlines, photo ID requirements, and even which parties you can register under. It's not a lack of technical ability or citizenship data (most men 18–25 are automatically registered for selective service, for instance, largely by automatically registering eligible men when they renew drivers' licenses and other important documents). There's a strong political interest in voter turnout, and political parties use as much space as Congress allows to ensure they retain an advantage in elections. A couple of the (many) examples you can find:

  1. Colorado automatically mails a ballot to all of their registered voters in part because people who are less likely to vote in person are more likely to vote for Democrats.
  2. Texas' voter ID law disallows some forms of ID (such as student IDs) that are more likely to be held by young people, but loosens rules surrounding IDs of elderly voters who are more likely to support Republicans.

Edit: My point is that automatically registering voters requires federal assistance, but states largely have the right to make their own rules (unless they're so one-sided that they're unconstitutional). Political parties on the state and national levels prefer to limit the federal government's involvement because it would restrict their ability to influence elections.

Jeff
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    "There's a strong political interest in voter turnout" - I doubt that. – Martin Schröder Jan 29 '17 at 14:09
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    While this contains interesting information, I don't see how it answers the question, namely "Why is registration necessary, when European countries can do without?". – sleske Sep 22 '17 at 09:22
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the day of the election ... and I am able to proceed.

It could have been made more clear to your readers if you had indicated that "the election" you were talking about were local elections - presumably means that it is not about the election of national leaders.

I think in most US locales local residence is all that's required for that as well.

The national IDs being discussed are in the context of a federal election - the presidential election of 2016 for example. It would be interesting to hear your experience, as an Italian citizen, to vote for the presidents of the Netherlands or Germany.

In the US, a lack of uniform national ID, and some states' laws prohibiting ID checks and others states issuing state IDs (without citizenship proof) have made voter fraud possible, and likely. the latest example came out of a political science researcher Old Dominion suggested that Hillary may have received as many as 800K votes from illegal aliens -> as many as 6%+ of non-citizens voted in the last presidential election.

and if you go through his earlier papers on non-citizen voting, you will find a large body of literature / researches in this area and it is fairly conclusive that non-citizens do vote in national elections consistently.

I think so far the trump administration has not provided much basis to say that this is a widespread problem. on the other hand, his political opponents, including the media, are equally baseless to call trump's claim "false" - as they don't have any facts to dispute his claim either.

With that, it makes sense to get to the bottoms of it, and see just how big / small a problem illegal votes (including non-citizen votes) are.

yannis
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dannyf
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    You seem to assume that in Europe, the processes for local and national elections differ as significantly as they do in the US. Why is that? You may, of course, focus your answer to US national elections if you wish, since that process is what the US national ID debate is about, but your commentary on European local and national elections seems a bit off, if not completely irrelevant. – yannis Jan 27 '17 at 17:50
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    Do you have a link to that Old Dominion study? As far as I know, it was about improper voter registrations, not improperly cast votes, so the suggestion that thousands of aliens have voted (whether lawfully present in the US or otherwise) is entirely unfounded. – phoog Jan 27 '17 at 17:59
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    @dannyf In most European countries all elections (local, state, federal) work the same way. In The Netherlands I just show up with an ID of my choice (ID cards are both compulsory and free of charge) and vote, they know exactly who I am. In Australia voting is compulsory (not showing up to vote will get you fined) and all voters are registered, which you only do once. Becoming a voter while being a non-citizen is pretty much impossible. – Nic Jan 28 '17 at 02:37
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    It could have been made more clear to your readers if you had indicated that "the election" you were talking about were local elections - presumably means that it is not about the election of national leaders. – I cannot speak for the asker, but yes, national elections work that way too. – Wrzlprmft Jan 29 '17 at 09:33
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    ...as they don't have any facts to dispute his claim either. It's much harder to come up with "facts" about a thing if the thing didn't happen or was negligible. The 800K figure is (1) extrapolated from a 2014 study, (2) based on anonymous survey/poll responses and (3) estimated based on assumptions that are questionable. It's a maximum estimate, and the same data and assumptions says Trump would have received a minimum of 200K votes from non-citizens (and nobody is mentioning that side of it). – user2338816 Jan 29 '17 at 10:38