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The background for this question is basically I am struggling with the problem of coping with grief of loss of loved ones, past or imminent. (See Death)

However, I have been aware of the concept of Mind uploading although I do not know how much of it are we close to realizing it. Then it dawned on me that what if we truly can survive death via transhumanism. Will it mean that humanity has conquered "mortality"?

1. If mind uploading is realized, will it prove the claim that the concept of Death is an illusion?

2. How much of the concept of brain emulation is fact? Is there a time frame when we will be able to use this in daily life?

Sniper Clown
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    Mind uploading is absurdly hard. We're about as close to that as we are of flying to the Andromeda galaxy. There's a decent chance that we'll learn enough in the coming centuries to make it a less astoundingly daunting task, but for now it's utterly out of reach. For the foreseeable future we will have to continue to deal with grief of loss in traditional ways. (It's also unclear whether we'll be able to prolong our lives as biological entities indefinitely before we are able to upload ourselves--and we may not ever be able to do either at all; some things are just too hard.) – Rex Kerr Dec 22 '12 at 20:02
  • There are no definite answers to the questions. – Annotations Aug 05 '13 at 14:24
  • The claim that death is an illusion has nothing to do with mind-uploading and cannot be proved by any amount of uploading. After all, if death is an ilusion then mind-uploading is not necessary. –  Sep 05 '19 at 13:31
  • If you were to conquer Death, you'd have to be eradicated to preserve the universe. – Marxos Jan 11 '24 at 19:40

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Ultimately, all transhumanistic defiance-of-death is a postponing of the inevitable. The second law of themodynamics puts a death date on the life of the energetic universe itself. There is little useful philosophy that can be done past this point. It is certainly possible (and entertaining) to consider a universe in which we discover ways to bypass entropy itself, but that is (at present) a waste of ontological effort.

At this point, we can begin to enter more prescriptive modes of philosophy and consider the individual's relationship with death--and there are very powerful paths down that route, beginning most obviously with mid-twentieth century European existentialism. That leaves the immediate scope of your question, however, so we won't tarry down those paths at present.

wmjbyatt
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  • Considering how little we actually know of the universe on a grand scale, I'd say it is a little bit early to be using words like "ultimately" and "inevitable" to describe anything "long term" about the universe. We don't even know what over 90% of the matter and energy in the universe is or where it's coming from. We have models that fit our limited observations, but those models are constantly evolving. For all we know, there's a constant input of energy into our universe from outside of it. We are still very early in our understanding of our little bubble of existence. – Mike Marynowski Feb 07 '17 at 06:14
  • The heat death of the universe is, at a minimum, many 10's of billions of years away. Possibly vastly more than that. Any problem that is 10's of billions of years away I am prepared to mark as provisionally solved. – puppetsock Sep 05 '19 at 18:18
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As wiki definition, cognition is a group of mental processes that includes attention, memory, producing and understanding language, learning, reasoning, problem solving, and decision making.

Here we can group it to three...

  1. Information Gathering.
  2. Information Storing.
  3. Information Processing.

    All the three stages depend on physical and genetical capability of the person. Hormonal behaviour of the persons affects heavily Information Processing and to an extend on Information Gathering. As the three factors varies for each person, the three process also varies.

    Information is stored in the memory as a highly complex relational database along with the logic of relating the data. When we think the logic of compiling the relational data may be pre-compiled or be combination of partly compiled logics. While processing or storing of compiled data it may depend on your three factors, similar previous reactions (reasoning), present emotional mood(hormonal).

So in case of Mind uploading what are u going to upload...... Data, logic,...???

  1. Data without logic is junk........!!!
  2. Data and logic without matched surroundings is again junk (identity crisis).
  3. How can we selectively extract required data from the actual data.

With present technology on my belief only we can check the neurological impulses of a human reaction.

In conclusion in present science isn't it an unrealistic methodology.......???

Aneosh
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Most of the premises of your question are wrong from an Buddhist point of view. You assume death and ego (idea of the self) as true which are considered illusions. See three marks of existence. ref here

Explanation:

Suffering is often produced by attachment to an false idea, desire or not acceptance of existence as it is. One of those features of existence is impermanence (nothing lasts forever). If you attach yourself emotionally to something believing that it will last forever when it doesn't you'll feel devastated. eg. "models who thinks their looks will last all their lives", "actors and actresses who are emotionally dependent on fame because they need other people to admiring them to feed their egos".

How close are we to conquering death? If mind uploading is realized, will it prove the claim that the concept of Death is an illusion?

OK let's suppose you and your loved ones are in computers now as immortal avatars. What if one of those instances are deleted or one server is formatted? Isn't that death too? What if your uploaded wife decided to leave you and have a life on her own? Isn't that break up a form of "death" too? Again this view is produced by a lack of acceptance of impermanence and an emotional attachment. It has to do more with psychology and less with philosophy.

Suppose we were in that mind uploaded word of immortal avatars and they made 5 copies of you. Which one would be you? What if they decided to split up and have a life of their own? After 300 years impermanence they would have changed completely and also would you! What if we are all copies of the same instance with different avatars changed by impermanence through millenea? Then "ego" or idea of the self is also an illusion a creation of the mind and also a creator of endless suffering.

Death is just a form of impermanence which is sometimes good and sometimes bad that needs to be accepted. Is that lack of acceptance that causes most suffering. Mind uploading would be submitted to the same marks of existence as this world (bardo) assuming that we are not in a computer program already.

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If mind uploading is realized, will it prove the claim that the concept of Death is an illusion?

I'd like to approach this as a variant of the Ship of Theseus paradox.

Whatever technology is used to "store" your mind or replace limbs or organs fundamentally alters you. So like the ship of Theseus, one has to acknowledge that physically you are not the original. The original and the new occupy the same space.

The definition of death you gave was a cessation of biological functions:

Death is the irreversible cessation of all biological functions that sustain an organism.

An organism (from Ancient Greek ὄργανον (órganon) 'instrument, implement, tool', and -ισμός (-ismós)) is any biological living system that functions as an individual life form.

Suppose an android was created (non biological) and your brain could be uploaded into it:

  1. After the upload, your biological-self will die (by your definition of death).
  2. Your new self is not a biological organism so the term "death" does not apply. The terms that are applied to the cessation of functions of a machine are now applicable.

So death is not an illusion. Your new self can be irreversibly broken beyond repair and cease to function but its not death. However, like the ship of Theseus, both your old and new self (as consciousness) occupy the same space. Death will simply be redefined to include non-biological organisms.

Idiosyncratic Soul
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  1. No. The mind uploading would only be relevant to those having the procedure, not death in general. There's also a great deal about the impacts of the non-mental parts of the body on the mind which we don't know yet, although could in principle be simulated - discussed here: Can minds be uploaded in computers? An upload would likely be more like a high resolution digital image of your mind, that could be run with varied levels of fidelity to the human bodily experience. But the qualia of it would almost inevitably, at least in the nearer term, be very different.

  2. Brain emulation is pure science fiction for now. Relatively small steps have been made in understanding cognitive architecture, like Convolutional Neural Networks in image processing. The Human Brain Project is an interesting landmark in scoping out how big the problem is. And brain-computer interfaces, like being developed by Neuralink, is an interesting area too, though it's proved challenging.

How close are we to mind uploading? Impossible to say. But the issue of computer vision is informative, it turned out to be a much harder challenge than early computer pioneers expected, indeed it's only really been possible in the last decade. The use-case of autonomous vehicles is directing massive funding towards improvements, but that's also making clear how difficult some of the remaining challenges are that we group under 'common sense' about how humans understand their environments visually. But, on the plus side, advances compound. Insights in one area support others, new hardware and software architecture can be rapidly shared and copied. And it's possible, likely even, that we are close to making systems that learn autonomously with AI to augment themselves, which could have unpredictable consequences.

Personally, I would say adding length to telomeres and stimulating biological rejuvenation, is likely to happen sooner than brain uploading. If we can't manipulate the biology of our bodies to that degree, I'd say really getting to grips with the complexity of our brains is a way off.

I like the Mahayana Buddhist idea of Alayavijnana, or Eighth Consciousness, which bears close comparison to the idea of the Memesphere, the conceptual 'space' in which ideas propagate. People we are parted from live on in our minds, and in the consequences of the actions. This Buddhist idea goes a little further, saying the part of us which does not include memories, can get 'picked up' by some future causes and conditions. This is a kind of rebirth I can believe, that people come around again in a way. We can work to make the world better for them when they come back.

A great deal of human culture is about the need, focused by experiencing deaths of others or facing our own deaths, to connect to transpersonal and transcendental themes, to a way to have lived that will have had consequences after we are gone. This answer discusses the history of this aspect of human behaviour, and how in a very real way it has defined human community: What are some philosophical works that explore constructing meaning in life from an agnostic or atheist view?

I would recommend you enquire more deeply into what the self is. If your mind was uploaded, and that constituted a set of memories, and that is 'you', what happens to you now when you forget something, do you become someone else? Or is'you' a set of temperaments, inclinations, the self that would still be there even if you got alzheimers or dementia? Are you still 'you' when unconscious or under anaesthesia, or just the potential to carry on being you? The change from being alive to brain dead can involve very small changes. If you can upload yourself what impact does it have that their could be multiple copies of you, or maybe rengineered versions suited more for particular tasks?

In Buddhist thought they have Three Marks of Existence, qualities we often wish to but can't escape. One of them is impermanence, that everything that is coming to be will pass away. The stars will only burn so long, no uploading and technology to go with it can last forever, and it's very unlikely that people with the closest possibility to that would choose it. Rather than focusing on death as a nemesis, as intrinsically bad, we should learn to talk about what a good death is. We should think how to be ready for something that is inevitable, but that we can meet on our own terms. Discussed more deeply here: Is Death a Feature or a Bug?

CriglCragl
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  1. If mind uploading is realized, will it prove the claim that the concept of Death is an illusion?

When the premise applied, the conclusion seems consequent. (as the illusion of life)

  1. How much of the concept of brain emulation is fact?

Not Sure, a housefly has ~100k neurons, chatgpt has ~100 billion neurons ..so hardware seems not an issue...

Is there a time frame when we will be able to use this in daily life?

As soon someone can formally and correctly and "finitely" (i.e. humbly..otherwise: today==eternity) describe "it".

(I guess: never/the day when eternity "is there".)

xerx593
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