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What are the main arguments brought forth in favor and against the unmediated nature of consciousness?

snflurry
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    I just gave an argument against it here: http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/19596/9166 –  Dec 16 '14 at 20:13
  • @jobermark, everyone so far seem to have interpreted the question as relating to a time dimension, while I believe the OP was possibly referring to the unmediated nature of consciousness. – nir Dec 20 '14 at 21:06
  • Yes, I was refering to that @nir. I should have made it clear, I'll edit the question later. – snflurry Dec 20 '14 at 21:59
  • @snflurry, you were referring to what? your comment does not seem to clarify the mystery. – nir Dec 21 '14 at 10:31
  • Sorry. I was in fact referring to the unmediated nature of consciousness. – snflurry Dec 21 '14 at 10:41
  • @nir The idea that all information goes into memory before being experienced is an intermediation between experience and consciousness, and creates a place where qualia can be constructed between our reception of raw data and our consciousness of them. So the reference remains relevant. –  Dec 22 '14 at 14:56
  • @jobermark, I have no idea how to even begin to interpret such propositions as an idea about information is an inter-mediation between experience consciousness, that creates a place for qualia to be constructed between such and such... it does not even seem a speculative statement. – nir Dec 22 '14 at 19:29
  • Sorry for the gap in grammar... This is what I mean: Consciousness is not immediate, if it is not even immediate in time. Memory is an intermediary. We cannot tell whether memory has messed with the experience before it comes to our consciousness, or not. It may do all kinds of things, as long as it does them quickly. And those things might be what converts sensations into qualia. So our 'sheer experience' of consciousness is not a real thing. –  Dec 22 '14 at 20:41
  • @jobermark, it seems to me you are confusing experience and perception; but if you believe there is no such (real) thing as qualia or experience, then be my guest, I accept your testimony; it is your head, not mine, and nobody else can give us a subjective report of your inner experience. – nir Dec 23 '14 at 09:55
  • @nir That is evasive nonsense. No one can give a subjective report of my inner experience but psychology exists and experiments mean something. If you do not have your 'inner experience' until a fraction of a second later, you cannot subjectively know that, but we can determine it with measurement. So it is gracious of you to 'accept my testimony' but what you need to do is go disprove the psychology instead. –  Dec 23 '14 at 15:04
  • @nir If I clarified the difference between experience and perception, I assume you would then determine neither of them had anything necessarily to do with consciousness, right? –  Dec 23 '14 at 15:09
  • just for the record since everyone seems to use these words with different meanings, I consider the words qualia and experience to be synonyms, while perception is their corresponding cognitive process (which a p-zombie should have too), and consciousness to be a wider concept which also includes such things as access consciousness (to things one arguably has no qualia of, such as the number of objects in a scene, etc) but depending on the context consciousness is sometimes used to simply mean qualia as Chalmers does in the quote and as Searle often does. – nir Dec 23 '14 at 15:46
  • Perception has been discussed for centuries before it was considered physiological, so I reject that as part of any traditional definition. Whatever creates experience is perception, whatever form that takes. What you are calling 'access consciousness' is also clearly perception, just perception of unnoted information. People react to unnoticed facts, but in order to react those facts have been perceived. So all these distinctions seem ill-considered and pointless. –  Dec 24 '14 at 16:18
  • @nir If consciousness is not the experience of perception in real time, then what use is the word? For folks who find all of these different things, instead of one process, that word seems to just be there so people can play shell games with the terminology and always leave one free to be unexplained. –  Dec 24 '14 at 16:22
  • @jobermark, I believe that is the terminology used by Chalmers; in particular he explains his use of the word perception here, and uses it with that meaning through the rest of his 1996 book; for example here. Ned Block defines and discusses access consciousness here. While philosophers of minds diverge on terminology, these distinctions are not ill-considered, nor pointless; on the contrary, it makes communication of ideas possible; something which I find very hard to do with you. – nir Dec 24 '14 at 19:49
  • Attempting to take the intended meaning without dissecting and language and telling other people they are confused when you either don't understand or actually disagree would help communication better. If you have an argument against me, make it, as an actual argument. Don't tell me I am confusing two terms about which we have no shared agreement as to exact meaning. –  Dec 25 '14 at 04:31
  • @jobermark, I did not write you are confused, but confusing, which is a different thing; you wrote "We cannot tell whether memory has messed with the experience before it comes to our consciousness" which makes sense to me if I replace the word experience with (the cognitive, psychological, non-phenomenal) word perception. – nir Dec 25 '14 at 16:02
  • @jobermark, anyway, I think any pre-processing, filtering, delays, etc, are immaterial to the immediate nature of experience, since the that immediateness is not about a relation between experience and the outside world but an epistemological difference between how we come to know about the external world, versus how we come to know about experience itself; experience is immediate epistemologically, while other phenomena are not. – nir Dec 25 '14 at 16:05
  • @nir I think this is a basic 'classical model' problem. We like to think things have 'bases' that there is an Ur-whatsit, a most basic element of whatever field. But that is a baseless assumption, especially where there is a lot of subtlety. There is no 'basis' to experience, there is only adaptation to the system in its full complexity. –  Dec 26 '14 at 16:11

3 Answers3

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Chalmers argues knowledge of consciousness is unmediated in his book The Conscious Mind, chapeter 5, section 5 The Argument from Self-Knowledge:

On a reliabilist theory, beliefs about a subject matter are justified if they are formed by a reliable process; that is, if they are formed by a process that tends to produce true beliefs. Perceptual beliefs, for example, are justified if they come about via optical stimulation from objects in the environment
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The trouble is that if our beliefs about consciousness were justified only by a reliable connection, then we could not be certain that we are conscious. The mere existence of a reliable connection cannot deliver certainty, for we have no way to rule out the possibility that the reliable connection is absent and that there is no consciousness at the other end. The only way to be sure here would be to have some further access to the other end of the connection; but that would be to say that we have some further basis to our knowledge of consciousness. This situation is often deemed acceptable for our knowledge of the external world: we do not need to be certain that chairs exist in order to know (in an everyday sense) that chairs exist, so it is not a problem that we are not certain that there is a reliable connection between chairs and our judgments about chairs. But we are certain that we are conscious.
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Beliefs justified only by a reliable connection are always compatible with the existence of skeptical hypotheses. These concern scenarios where things seem exactly the same to a subject but in which the beliefs are false, because the reliable connection does not hold. In the case of perceptual knowledge, for example, one can construct a case in which the reliable connection is absent—a case where the subject is a brain in the vat, say—and everything will still seem the same to the subject. Nothing about a subject's core epistemic situation rules this scenario out. But in the case of consciousness, one cannot construct these skeptical hypotheses. Our core epistemic situation already includes our conscious experience. There is no situation in which everything seems just the same to us but in which we are not conscious, as our conscious experience is (at least partly) constitutive of the way things seem.

nir
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Two arguments.

First, one from communication theory:

If the encoding delay seen experimentally is real, then experience is always retrieved from memory. That is a medium, and the process is mediated by it. The nature of what we can and cannot experience is restricted by the medium on which it is recorded. Not to go entirely in the Marshall McLuhan direction, but the medium of presentation hugely shapes the kinds of messages than can be faithfully borne.

I think the 'arrow of time' is a restriction of that medium, as I have argued elsewhere: https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/18190/9166. So are concepts like color and the continuity of shape.

To argue that experience is unmediated leads us to consider it more reliable than it really is. Experience is the frame from which we must start, but it is not just a representation of what we are immersed it, it is heavily pre-processed and strongly biased by the nature of our embedding.

Second, one familiar mostly to educators and workers in computing:

We are constantly confronted with things that we have learned to experience differently. For example, we more seldom experience ourselves moving backward when something moves forward beside us, unless we are otherwise lost in thought or processing things poorly for other reasons. The original experience we used to have as children just disappears most of the time. Our learning intervenes before that experience happens, now that we are more sure of the world. If nothing intervened before information became experience except some mechanism of perception, that would not happen: We would know the original experience, even if we also knew the corrected one. If experience is unmediated, how can we learn to do it better?

One may object this is still about perception, about the outside world. But our internal processes are altered by common repetition just as strongly. Consider the experience of 'flow'. If we do algebra all day, we do it automatically, and it evaporates from our experience. When we really know how to program, it feels like speaking, and not like the intricate planning and balancing of factors that it really is. So the experience is 'cleaned up' before we have it.

When we want access to the gritty details of our own stream of consciousness, they are actually quite hard to get at. Any good systems analyst has to notice that most high-expertise professions contain absolutely false characterizations of how the work itself is done. Novices know this because it can present a quite high barrier to entry, not on purpose, but because experts come to experience their own internal worlds differently and become alienated from the more natural state. Automating a field where such over-processed notions of how one actually thinks are prevalent is painful, and creates the industry-wide impression that 'clients are morons' who do not even know objectively how they spend their days.

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The following may not be strictly relevant to what you want to ask, but ...

There is a time lag (~100ms) between an event and you becoming aware of it, this allows the brain to associate data from different processing channels each with its own lag into a single experience. Most of the time you do not notice it but it is there, and on occasion will even give rise to some apparently pretty odd experiences. See David Eagleman's essay Brain Time.

As I understand it you may even get a reversal of experienced temporal order (but that is my reading of the sources, yours may vary) ... didn't I just say that...

  • I see people have downvoted this answer without commenting why. If I may be constructive: I think what you mention is highly valuable (it is a very direct answer!), but a lot of people on the forum may not quite ready to axiomatically assume consciousness is simply a brain function. The OPs wording suggests they may also think along those lines. – Cort Ammon Dec 21 '14 at 05:18
  • I downvoted, but not because I'm afraid of anything. I downvoted because it does not present arguments as the word is normally understood, which presumably is what the OP wanted. First hint was "The following many not be strictly relevant ...". The same experiment, etc., could be reworded to explain why you think this shows that consciousness is either mediated or unmediated and with less of the first and last paragraph type of stuff tacked in. – virmaior Dec 22 '14 at 21:24