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What is the definition of the word "real"? For example, we can all agree that Harry Potter and unicorns are not real, while Mount Everest and Mars are real. Some people even say consciousness is not a real thing. What does "real" and "reality" actually mean?

J D
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user107952
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  • 'Real world' is a term that can only exist in quotation marks — seen somewhere on the web – Rushi Nov 26 '23 at 02:51
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    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" – Mark Nov 26 '23 at 05:17
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    One interesting definition of real I have come across is that if it cannot ever affect you in any way, then it is not real. For example, objects that do indeed exist, but have passed beyond the event horizon of the universe are essentially never again can affect you or your surroundings in any way in a very literal, absolute sense. – DKNguyen Nov 26 '23 at 07:16
  • both of those examples (Harry Potter, Unicorns) are definitely real :) – Razi Shaban Nov 26 '23 at 17:42
  • @DKNguyen: I ran across this oddball quote a few years ago and now I can't find it. "You would be surprised what gods that don't exist can do." – Joshua Nov 26 '23 at 20:19
  • @DKNguyen can such a physical interpretation really be taken? If I have an apple today, it is real. If I launch the apple on an accelerating space ship that exits my universe's horizon in the next Q years, I would still say "there was an apple, it has HAD an impact on my universe and i continue to live today with memories of this apple/its impact on the world, so certainly the apple was real and since I have no reason to believe it is suddenly not real, it should continue to be real even though there is now no way to go find/retrieve the apple" – Sidharth Ghoshal Nov 27 '23 at 01:02
  • Quantum mechanics seems to be dependent on it's observer. Real? – candied_orange Nov 27 '23 at 17:53
  • @SidharthGhoshal If I remember right, the definition I mentioned was not exactly for whether something was real or not, but whether it still exists or not. For things beyond the event horizon, if they can no longer affect you in any way, do they really even still exist any more than unicorns that are only ever on the other side of the event horizon? – DKNguyen Nov 27 '23 at 23:46

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There is no one canonical and privileged definition of 'real'. However, in the most intuitive sense, it is anything that is independent of us and our existence and immediately apprehensible. This is the real of naive realism. From WP:

In philosophy of perception and epistemology, naïve realism (also known as direct realism, perceptual realism, or common sense realism) is the idea that the senses provide us with direct awareness of objects as they really are.1 When referred to as direct realism, naïve realism is often contrasted with indirect realism.2

But the thing about 'real' and 'reality' is that there are a host of views on what it is. That means what 'real' means depends on the theory of realism of which there are many that explicates its meaning. Thus, some theories of real include, among other:

Thus, there is real in the context of ethical values, real in the context of mathematical figures, real in the context of empirical experience, and so on.

The other way to understand real is to understand it terms of what it is not. These theories are, thanks to Dummett, called anti-realism. Many physicists like to claim their definition of real is iron-clad, but a sizeable number of philosophers of science make solid arguments for instrumentalism. As such, modern mathematical physical claims to the sole valid interpretation of real are actually contingent of one's views about physicalism.

J D
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Paraphrasing Wikipedia on quantum mechanics, an object is real if outcomes of measurements of the object are well-defined prior to – and independent of – the measurements.

Considering your examples, Harry Potter is not real because there are various measurements which could be conducted on him, such as measuring his height, which are not well-defined by the text which establishes his existence. Similarly, unicorns are not real because various properties they are purported to have, like magical blood, are not measurable even in theory.

To say that Mars or Mount Everest are real is to say that, even though we have not measured every property of them, we could theoretically execute any definable measurement upon them; further, we don't expect those properties to change without physical cause.

Corbin
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    I'm not sure if that definition is rigorous enough.

    "Harry Potter is not real because there are various measurements which could be conducted on him, such as measuring his height, which are not well-defined by the text which establishes his existence".

    In the quantum world, there are many measurements which are not well-defined. Similarly, and for similar reasons, real outcomes affected by chance may not be well-defined. If I kiss you, will you hit me? Definitely real outcomes, not well defined. Will a protein bind to another? Real outcome that we don't know how to define.

    – AlDante Nov 26 '23 at 05:13
  • @Corbin I can not determine how tall you are without asking you for your height, or measuring your height, therefore you are fictional. – Emil Karlsson Nov 27 '23 at 13:47
  • @AlDante: Indeed, particles are not wholly real. This was a big surprise to physicists, but is well-supported by experimental evidence. – Corbin Nov 27 '23 at 20:53
  • @EmilKarlsson: To clarify: you could measure my height in principle; you could travel to where I am and use a gauge of some sort. This isn't possible with Harry Potter; no amount of travel to Scotland will give you a chance to use a gauge to measure his height. – Corbin Nov 27 '23 at 20:54
  • I read a Medium article recently where an author claimed that Harry Potter was more real than a literal bottle of ketchup the author held in his hand. I am not convinced. I wonder if someone smashed a (glass) bottle of ketchup over his head, whether the author would maintain this claim. I'm not advocating violence here, I just find that being injured gives me a very visceral sense of what is real, at least momentarily. – JimmyJames Nov 27 '23 at 22:32
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"Cogito, ergo sum."

I think, therefore I am. The only thing we can readily depend upon being real is ourselves.

Of course, this is tremendously unlikely and raises a whole host of other questions, which is why you so rarely see actual solipsists. When you do encounter them, they tend to be somewhat... Unhinged.

Your question also opens more questions of its own. What kind of thing are we referring to when we say "real"?

Are we talking about conscious agents? People like you and me?

Are we talking about inanimate objects, like the bricks and stones of the world we seem to encounter?

What about qualia? Is "the taste of vanilla ice cream" real? Are love and hatred real?

What about abstract concepts? Are good and evil real?

Things get extremely fuzzy, far faster than we tend to anticipate.

ConnieMnemonic
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    "Cogito, ergo sum" epitomises Kant's situation in his Critique of Pure Reason; he says one can't be certain of anything beyond one's own scope. To develop his theory of morals he had to come up with his Critique of Practical Reason where the existence of others is granted as a practical measure. For pure philosophy, as opposed to practical scientific realism, Kant's revolutionary ideas are still totally relevant although they have been significantly refined. This BBC podcast might be interesting if you can access it: Kant's Copernican Revolution – Chris Degnen Nov 26 '23 at 15:59
  • Appreciate it, thank you @ChrisDegnen! I need to read Critique of Pure Reason as I find myself referencing it more often these days, heh. – ConnieMnemonic Nov 27 '23 at 10:02
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"If a tree falls in a forest and no-one witnesses it, did it happen?"

Reality is that for which the answer is "yes".

Certainly a concept in philosophy exists for which the answer is "it cannot be proved". However that concept leads to the conclusion that nothing can be proved to be real, not even that which is witnessed by you personally. (After all, someone might have set it up to fool you.) In that case, all discussion of reality is moot, because no answer can be given. So any consideration of that school of philosophy in answering is pointless.

Graham
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I am going to assume that you mean real in the scientific sense. Classically science observes phenomena, not things in themselves, noumena. So, it could be argued that science does not allow us to know reality, just to make predictions about its behaviour. Panpsychism proposes that the fundamental stuff of the universe is matter-consciousness, a noumenon. So we can know reality, ultimately. In the artistic sense, Harry Potter and unicorns are real. Consciousness is real, else what is answering this question? Stuff is real, and reality is made of stuff.

Meanach
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  • One scientific definition of real is whether it is required by a model to explain something or not. That is how certain things that are not directly observable or even really indirectly measurable, but required in models are considered real. Mathematical concepts and constructs obviously fall under this umbrella but the more interesting one is physical, yet essentially unmeasurable or unobservable, even indirectly, tangible, physical things such as virtual particles. – DKNguyen Nov 26 '23 at 07:19
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What is the definition of real?

Strictly speaking, the definition of "real" is, and can only be, an ostensive definition.

You ostensively define what is real by pointing a finger at what you think is real. We can all do it, and we all understand, including children and philosophers. There is no ambiguity.

More fundamentally, the brain is a cognitive system and as such has to work out some sort of representation of the real world, and so has to have a fundamental notion of reality. This notion can only come from within. In other words, brain is its own measure of the notion of reality because, if it exists at all, it is itself by definition its own reality. However, as a cognitive system, it is oriented to the outside. Our brain's function is to give us a representation of the world outside our brain. The reality we are interested in, if we are to survive in it, is the real world. Basic metabolism takes care of the survival of our brain, so what the brain needs to do is to help us survive in the real world. Thus, the most important questions for the brain to decide is which is real, which is not. This is what we spend our lives trying to establish. This is a task with no end in sight. We can only believe, not know, what is real.

However, this is not the question. The question is the definition of "real".

From the point of view of the brain, reality starts with itself. A sort of neurobiological Cogito: I think, therefore I am. This is the definition of "real". Reality itself may then be thought of as whatever the brain manages to include into what seems real in the same sense that it sees itself as being.

The first chunk of furniture that the brain normally comes to include into what it takes to be reality is what is immediately perceptible and stable, which are just concrete objects in the proximate environment of the subject. Subsequent experience of the real world, and in particular social life, leads the brain to extend the furniture to abstract objects, what other people want or think, the idea of human communities, and later perhaps the laws of nature and of logic. The brain extends its notion of reality further and further as experience makes it realise this and that aspect of the real world. We start from the most concrete, and we pack up a more and more abstract furniture into what we see as the container of the real world.

EDIT Subsequent experience of the real world, and in particular social life, leads the brain to extend the furniture to abstract objects By this, I mean the use of logic, not necessarily reasoning.

The brain is a logical organ and so it derives logical conclusions all the time (in an unconscious process) without the need for us to articulate any reasoning or to formalise each time the logic of the derivation. Few people ever articulate formal logic expressions, and providing reasons for what we do or think is at best occasional and perfunctory.

Each of us has inevitably his or her own view as to what is included in the real world, but we have all nonetheless the same fundamental notion of reality, because, ultimately, it comes down to the reality of what the brain perceives as itself, which can only be the measure of reality, and we presumably all have broadly the same sort of brains.

And this is an ostensive definition if anything is.

EDIT - This applies to dreams and delusions. We seem to take our dream for real while we are dreaming. It is only when we wake up that we can understand that this was delusional, but then we are no longer dreaming. Same for delusions.

Other people can only say that our dream or our delusion is not real because they are not having this dream or they are not now subject to this delusion. They would otherwise presumably take the same dream or the same delusion for real.

Speakpigeon
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    This strikes me as a helpful contribution, but here are two observations that might form the basis for follow-on questions. Firstly, children begin to distinguish between dreams and reality typically between the ages of 3 and 4, and people of any age can suffer from delusions, the content of which are not regarded as real by a consensus of minds. Secondly, when we apply reason to what we see as ostensively real, we reach a point where we have a reason to believe in the reality of things that we cannot point to, such as electrons. Consequently, I'm not ready to accept there's no ambiguity. – sdenham Nov 26 '23 at 16:06
  • @sdenham "children begin to distinguish between dreams and reality typically between the ages of 3 and 4" And? – Speakpigeon Nov 26 '23 at 16:55
  • @sdenham "people of any age can suffer from delusions, the content of which are not regarded as real by a consensus of minds." So? – Speakpigeon Nov 26 '23 at 16:56
  • It seems possible for people to point to the contents of dreams and delusions - things that other people do not regard as real - in the same way as they can point to things that other people do regard as real. How, under your definition, is the question of whether or not these things are real resolved (or do you, perhaps, dispute that this situation could possibly arise? Or that the question has an objective answer?) – sdenham Nov 27 '23 at 03:40
  • In your 6th. paragraph, you appear to be endorsing the use of reason to expand the scope of the real to include conclusions drawn by reasoning from facts about what is already taken as real (either directly ostensively, or transitively through prior reasoning) - or am I misreading you here? – sdenham Nov 27 '23 at 03:41
  • @sdenham "dreams and delusions" There is no difficulty applying my answer to dreams and delusions. We seem to take our dream for real while we are dreaming. It is only when we wake up that we understand that this was delusional, but then we are no longer dreaming. Same for delusions. As to other people, they would presumably take the same dream or the same delusion for real if they were having this dream or this delusion. They only say that it is not real because they are not dreaming or they are not now subject to this delusion. – Speakpigeon Nov 27 '23 at 11:00
  • @sdenham "the use of reason to expand the scope of the real" I meant the use of logic. I didn't have reasoning specifically in mind. The brain is a logical organ and it derives logical conclusions all the time without the need for us to articulate the reasoning or formalise the logic of it. – Speakpigeon Nov 27 '23 at 11:07
  • Indeed - a person dreaming or having a delusion will often take what they experience as representing reality while they are experiencing it, and the latter in particular may never come to see it as having been delusional. If we want to define reality as being that to which we can point, without it being subjective (and "subjective reality" sounds rather oxymoronic to me, though no doubt there is an -ism which embraces the idea) then it seems to me that we need to exclude that which only a delusional mind would point to as being real... – sdenham Nov 28 '23 at 03:51
  • ...but then, to avoid circularity, it seems we need to define a delusion as something other than a state of mind which mistakenly takes for being real something which is not. So how about taking the consensus view of what is real? One problem is that, over most of history and pre-history, the consensus would probably endorse a flat, stationary Earth, and even if we take the consensus over all time up to the present, the flat Earth probably would still be the consensus view today ("only" about 7% of everyone who has ever lived is alive today.) – sdenham Nov 28 '23 at 03:52
  • At this point, I feel that I am wandering into Hume's territory without being properly prepared, so I will pause for now... – sdenham Nov 28 '23 at 03:53
  • @sdenham "we need to exclude that which only a delusional mind would point to as being real.." Sure. And we do, isn't it? – Speakpigeon Nov 28 '23 at 10:40
  • @sdenham "mind which mistakenly takes for being real something which is not." No circularity there. When we are awake, we are not dreaming, and we can tell that our dreams are delusional. – Speakpigeon Nov 28 '23 at 10:42
  • @sdenham "the flat Earth probably would still be the consensus view today" if they believe it, they sure think it is real. If you don't believe it, you sure think it is not. I don't see where is the problem. People disagree all the time about all sorts of things, although they mostly agree about most things. This is life. Que le meilleur gagne. This is how real people think reality, is it not? – Speakpigeon Nov 28 '23 at 10:49
  • Your reply to the question of circularity mentions only dreaming, but does not consider the case of persistent delusion. This may be moot, however: given that this discussion is in the context of the question "what is the definition of 'real'?" (as opposed to, say, "how does a person decide something is real?"), your reply to the flat earth question seems to endorse the view that reality just is whatever one thinks it is. – sdenham Nov 29 '23 at 03:45
  • @sdenham "endorse the view that reality just is whatever one thinks it is" No, I didn't say, imply or suggest that. I'm quite sure there is only one reality. – Speakpigeon Nov 29 '23 at 16:18
  • The crux of the issue is in your 5th. paragraph (the one that goes "...This is the definition of 'real'...") I suppose this might be interpreted several different ways, but it seems to me that any interpretation would have two components: firstly, the brain sees itself a real, and secondly, it adds everything else that seems real in the same sense as it sees itself as real ("in the same sense" seems to be doing a lot of the work here, but that is probably moot for the purposes of this discussion.) – sdenham Nov 30 '23 at 03:53
  • Moreover, we seem to agree on three premises: 1) different people can, and often do, disagree over what is real; 2) this is unremarkable, and even unavoidable, given our understanding of neurobiology (or even just from introspection?); 3) there is only one reality. – sdenham Nov 30 '23 at 03:55
  • From the third premise, it seems that any effective definition of 'real' should always identify the same set of real things, but from the first premise, your definition identifies different sets, depending on whose brain is constructing the set (and often depending on when in their lives the distinction is drawn.) This is the issue that I cannot see being resolved, so far, in your reply. – sdenham Nov 30 '23 at 03:55
  • @sdenham I understand your point, but I shouldn't clarify any further because the answer is already crystal clear. Your questions just prove my point, though, that your brain really wants to insist that there is only one reality. Your brain always identifies the same set of real things. So, where is the problem? Or are you going to insist that other brains are wrong? How is it possible to decide how reality *really* is without first knowing what is *really* the case and, therefore, what is reality? – Speakpigeon Nov 30 '23 at 11:01
  • A work can be crystal clear and yet self-contradictory, or merely not address all the issues that follow from it...One request for clarification: you say "your brain always identifies the same set of real things", but you have previously written things like "we seem to take our dream for real while we are dreaming. It is only when we wake up that we understand that this was delusional." What, is it then, that is taking our dream for real while we are dreaming? – sdenham Dec 01 '23 at 03:14
  • Whatever it is, this reply does not seem to address the issue in my previous post, which is the fact (which we apparently agree on) that not everyone agrees on what belongs in that set, most people repeatedly change their minds about what is in that set (on waking from a dream, for example), and also that there is, and has historically been, widespread disagreement over what belongs in that set. – sdenham Dec 01 '23 at 03:14
  • If the question asked how people attribute reality to something, this disagreement presents no problem, but the question asks for a definition of 'real'. Even then, it is not a problem if one were to hold that reality is subjective, and is just whatever a person thinks is real right now, but you have also said that there is only one reality, and this appears to set up a contradiction that has not yet been addressed: if there is only one reality, and one's brain always identifies the same set of real things, why doesn't everyone agree on what's real all the time? – sdenham Dec 01 '23 at 03:15
  • In answer to the questions you end with: So where is the problem? See above. Are you going to insist that other brains are wrong? Not only are other brains sometimes wrong, but mine is as well, and quite possibly in ways that I will be incapable of noticing. How is it possible to decide how reality really is without first knowing what is really the case? Maybe certainty in this matter is beyond our grasp. What is reality? I cannot give a definitive answer, despite having read 12 crystal-clear paragraphs on the question, as there still seem to be some unresolved issues arising from them. – sdenham Dec 01 '23 at 03:17
  • @sdenham "What, is it then, that is taking our dream for real while we are dreaming?" It is the same person, but not with the same access to memories as when awake. – Speakpigeon Dec 01 '23 at 16:48
  • The corollary seems to be that, far from one's brain always identifying the same set of real things, it depends on what one can recall at the time. Once again, we seem to be considering the question of how people come to take a position on whether something is real, rather than defining the term. – sdenham Dec 02 '23 at 04:59
  • @sdenham "rather than defining the term" I wonder what you think defining the term "real" consists of. Grammatical sentences can be nonsense. You should think about that. – Speakpigeon Dec 02 '23 at 16:45
  • "Grammatical sentences can be nonsense" - indeed, and I sometimes make the same point myself; of course, it cuts both ways. Here, the distinction I am making is as clear as the difference between what a triangle is and how we recognize triangles... If triangularity were subjective, then they might be the same, but you have explicitly disavowed the view that reality is subjective... – sdenham Dec 03 '23 at 03:37
  • That reminds me; you have not yet replied on the apparent contradiction that I raised a couple of days ago: if there is only one reality, and one's brain always identifies the same set of real things [at least when one is awake], why doesn't everyone agree on what's real all the time [they are awake]?" – sdenham Dec 03 '23 at 03:38
  • @sdenham "why doesn't everyone agree" It is obviously not possible for any two humans to have exactly the same data about the world. If we could have exactly the same data, we would probably agree on what is the real world. This is demonstrated by the fact that most people agree on most things. – Speakpigeon Dec 03 '23 at 10:36
  • Each time we make a turn on the roundabout, your position shifts to one that is a bit more reasonable. On November 30, you held that a person's brain always identifies the same set of real things; a day later, to this being so only when awake, and now to the premise that any two persons, having exactly the same data, will agree on what is real. This is progress, from a collection of claims that quite clearly contained a contradiction, to a weakened version which replaces the certainty of the original claims with a hypothesis about what people with identical data would agree on. – sdenham Dec 04 '23 at 04:58
  • The work is not yet finished, however: consider an awake, delusional person, and another with the same data. Per your hypothesis, they will agree what is real in the world, but at least person 1 is, ex hypothesi, delusional, and so not everything this pair regards as real belongs in your one reality. – sdenham Dec 04 '23 at 04:58
  • @sdenham It is absurd to expect me to articulate a complete formal theory in just a few paragraphs. Readers have to interpret what I wrote. You prefer instead to interpret each sentence literally as if it was formal logic and then accuse me of contradicting myself. Read my answer again. I really doubt that your interpretation will look plausible to any rational person – Speakpigeon Dec 04 '23 at 11:13
  • Firstly, I am not presenting an interpretation of your reply, I am making some points about what you have written and the clarifications you have given, and nailing down what, specifically, you are saying is part of the reason why this discussion has been so drawn-out. – sdenham Dec 05 '23 at 04:02
  • It is likely that a rational person would have immediately recognized the contradiction between some of the claims you have been making, without me having to repeatedly make the point over a period of a week or more. She would also likely recognize that this is a problem with the core of your definition, not a side-issue of no consequence. The core of your thesis is the proposition that the human brain is such that what people think is real is, in fact, objectively real, and my questions examine that proposition. – sdenham Dec 05 '23 at 04:03
  • The issue in my latest question is, of course, that even if people with the same data will agree on what is real (a premise that can be independently questioned, I just have not got round to it yet), this would do nothing to justify the assumption that what they are agreeing on is objective reality. – sdenham Dec 05 '23 at 04:04
  • This back-and-forth is central to philosophy (most entries in the SEP contain summaries of exchanges like this), and if you don't think your pronouncements should be subject to it, perhaps public philosophy is not your thing. – sdenham Dec 05 '23 at 04:04