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There are mandolins with f-shaped holes, oval holes, round holes; bowlback mandolins and flatback mandolins; archtop mandolins and flattop mandolins; mandolins with a pear-shaped body (A-style) or with a scroll (F-style); and even mandolin-banjos. Violins don't seem to have this kind of variance, and I've seen people argue that their shape inevitably has to be the way it is for them to sound good. Answers to this question give examples of some alternative shapes (e.g. with c-shaped holes), but they still are relatively similar to the "ordinary" shape. Both instruments are identically tuned, both are used all across the world for playing extremely different kinds of music. Why don't the rules that constrain the shape of the violin apply to the mandolin?

zabolekar
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  • Maybe a good starting point would be a quick Google of the history of mandolin. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_mandolin – Andy Bonner Feb 17 '24 at 18:58
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    Maybe the definition of "mandolin" is just that much more flexible than the definition of "violin"? (See pedal steel guitar for how flexible the definition of "guitar" can be.) – Dekkadeci Feb 18 '24 at 06:50
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    @Dekkadeci the pedal steel guitar is a nice example; however, if "less flexible definition" were the entire explanation, one would expect there to be many different kinds of "fiddles" (for a lack of a more precise word) that are essentially violins but look differently. Instead, we have the opposite situation, where instruments like the eight-string Hardanger fiddle basically look like elaborately decorated violins. – zabolekar Feb 18 '24 at 09:48
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    The only common properties are 1) the four courses of double strings, 2) the tuning, and 3) being played (mostly) with a plectrum. – rfbw Feb 19 '24 at 11:13

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I don't think it's possible to give a conclusive answer as the question is somewhat speculative, but I think that several things are relevant and worth mentioning:

  1. It's to some extent a naming convention. "Violin" refers to a specific instrument, and "mandolin" refers to a family of instruments. As another example: "guitar" is a very generic name, "classic guitar" is much much narrower, and basically all classic guitars look almost the same. Or another example: in the "violin" world, the different sizes of the same instrument get a different name, in the "mandolin" world, the different sizes don't really have that (I don't know why is that and I won't get into more speculations).

  2. There are more types and shapes of bowing instruments, it's just that one got very prevalent, probably (speculation alert) for two reasons: (a) it's included into the symphonic orchestra (see below), and (b) it's super hard to learn to play it, so if you dedicate years and years into learning to play it on a reasonable level, you as well want to give yourself a chance of using it by choosing an instrument that people actually care about.

  3. Violin is an symphonic orchestral instrument, and for most of these, a lot of effort has been put into their perfection and standardization. The violin is maybe taken a step further as it's played by many in unison and they sit in the center of the orchester, meaning that even more standardization was sought for.

yo'
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  • One follow-up question: I've only seen violin sizes written as fractions, e.g. 4/4 or 3/4. You say that different violin sizes also have names. What are their names? – zabolekar Feb 18 '24 at 10:50
  • Viola, violoncello and double bass? (The fraction sizes are really just useful as learning tools for kids, I haven't even considered them to be honest...) – yo' Feb 18 '24 at 10:57
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    But how is it different from the mandola, the mandocello and the (admittedly uncommon) mandobass? – zabolekar Feb 18 '24 at 11:03
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    Technically, double bass is a viol, not a large violin. The others are large violins. – Todd Wilcox Feb 18 '24 at 12:48
  • @zabolekar In that if you talk to many people, they'll say "large mandolin" for these, but nobody really says "large violin" for a cello. Heck, even the wiki page for a mandobass is the "mandolin" page :-) – yo' Feb 18 '24 at 13:40
  • The wiki page for a mandobass is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandobass, and while I see your point, I really can't agree. According to pictures one can find if one googles "is that a violin" meme, unknowledgeable people often confuse cellos and especially violas with violins, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens even more often with rarer instruments. – zabolekar Feb 18 '24 at 14:32
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    @zabolekar You know -- you can agree or disagree, that's not something I would like to change when the whole topic is very subjective :-) – yo' Feb 18 '24 at 15:45
  • @zabolekar Usage in popular culture (and related memes) is irrelevant: people that is not musically educated confuse bass guitars as standard ones, just based on generic shapes and usage, or oboes with clarinets (assuming they do know them, otherwise they may even use other terms like "sax" or "flute"), just because they are "long and played by blowing into them". The fractions you've seen are probably referred to pedagogical instruments used with children, which are small sized versions of the "actual" instrument, but the size of a specific instrument is not the only way to define it. » – musicamante Feb 19 '24 at 03:38
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    @zabolekar While uncommon, there are fractions of larger string instruments used for children. Their look may be misleading, but appearance does not tell the absolute instrument specification. For instance, if you can just take an approximate look from a distance, a 1/4 double bass may look similar to a 2/4 cello, or even a full sized viola (depending on the perspective), if not even a violin. What's interesting here is that all these instruments are actually and historically derived from the viola, even if now it's common to refer to all of them as belonging to the "violin family". – musicamante Feb 19 '24 at 03:38
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    Regarding names for different sizes in the family: For anyone playing in a plucked string orchestra, the difference between mandolin, mandola, mandoloncello, and (uncommon) mandobass is as obvious as the difference between violin and viola is for fiddlers. The last example in 1. is wrong! – rfbw Feb 19 '24 at 11:06
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There is one important difference between mandolins and violins, and that concerns the predominant direction in which the strings vibrate. For bowed strings, it is tangentially to the top, which necessitates a sound post and a body shape that can make use of it, whereas for the plucked mandolin the primary vibration is vertical which can be picked up with a suitably reinforced top of just about any shape. In that sense, mandolin does indeed objectively have more design freedom.

What makes it worse is that even most luthiers don't really seem to understand the physics of the sound post action (though the old masters most certainly did!) It is really a quite clever mechanism; basically any random change you could make to it would result in a worse response and only a properly thought-through redesign could hope to sound as good as a standard violin.

Still, I don't think that's the main reason why violins all look so similar. String players are just extremely conservative and everything diverging from "how it is done" has to offer very clear advantages to be even considered as an alternative.

leftaroundabout
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There are ergonomic violas

(maybe ergonomic violins could exist too?).

Electric violins seem to come in all shapes and forms.

There are closely related instruments to violin with resonance strings.

There are small size differences as well between violins depending on what sound you want. And the head piece usually is kind of like a signum for you (as a luthier).

This is the picture I have of why you are not entirely right claiming violins are the same.

Emil
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  • What's a signum? – phoog Feb 22 '24 at 06:30
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    Like a signoff or signature. Some freedom of expression showing it is your creation. Maybe english doesn't use signum that way. – Emil Feb 22 '24 at 07:59
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    Oh I see. Wiktionary has it in English, but I haven't encountered it before. I'd consider "trademark" or "hallmark" or possibly "maker's mark" or "emblem," but I think each of these choices has its problems, and I can't think of a good single word. Anyway, with these comments, the meaning should be clear. – phoog Feb 22 '24 at 10:11