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I'm seeing this symbol in a couple places in a score I'm transcribing, and wondering what it means:

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Next to the flat in each case is a colon symbol. It only appears in the cello part, though that may or may not be relevant. They are all on the same note, middle C, I don't see any on other notes. The piece is a simphonie concertante by Jean-François Tapray (1738-1822) in case that gives a clue for notation that may have been used during that time.

Does it maybe have something to do with C-flat just being enharmonic with B-natural? Though there are other C-flats in the same part (as well as some of the others) without the colon, so no idea what the difference would be.

I tried searching around but it's impossible to look for "colon" regarding musical notation and not just have every answer be a "repeat bar", which this is clearly not.

Edit: @phoog pointed out another example, this time in the viola part:

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Still on a C - doesn't seem to happen on any other note.

Edit again: Just found another example, on an F in the principal violin part:

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So much for the "only on C's" theory, but it does still follow the pattern of the flat being enharmonic with the natural of the note below it. I also think that lines up with my second example from the cello? At least the line is rhythmically the same, I'll see when I get to it.

Edit: Yet more examples were spotted by @Old Brixtonian, still on C's, but this time in the harpsichord part, and I found a few in the piano as well, which makes even less sense to me, since while the strings have the ability to bend notes to make them more harmonically pure, keyboards definitely do not (at least in that time period, and mostly still today though there are electronic instruments which can, as well as some weird experimental acoustic ones, but it's not a standard feature at all.)

Edit: Ack! Another one that throws the enharmonic theory out of the water, it's on a B in the first violin part:

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Which makes it make even less sense because B is already flat from the key signature, so that's entirely redundant.

Note: For anyone curious, I've posted my simulated recording of this piece here:

For the record, I ended up just ignoring the colons and it sounds alright, so I'll just chalk it up to something they maybe needed back in those days that doesn't apply to modern tuning.

Darrel Hoffman
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  • Just a wild guess - is there a chance it is some sort of double flat sign? What are the other parts doing against those C-flats? – Peter Feb 09 '24 at 11:34
  • I see it in the viola part, too. Maybe it is a warning that it's not playable as a harmonic of the open C string, but I haven't found any C flats in the violin part (with or without the colon) to test the hypothesis. And that doesn't explain C flats that lack the dots. – phoog Feb 09 '24 at 11:36
  • @Peter the piano has a normal C flat with no dots at, I think, the same spot as the third example in this question (but I didn't count the measures). – phoog Feb 09 '24 at 11:36
  • @phoog, yes, that wouldn't sound good for that period. – Peter Feb 09 '24 at 11:41
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    It looks as if the music has been either copied or edited by someone with a poor grasp of musical notation. Those colons look suspiciously like the two dots of a bass clef, the flats in the key-signatures are poorly positioned, and "FF" and "P" should be in lower-case italic. Maybe some hapless apprentice, charged with making a legible copy from the composer's handwriting, decided C's without natural-signs regularly needed a flat-sign and a colon. – Old Brixtonian Feb 09 '24 at 13:51
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    @OldBrixtonian Good catch on the dots resembling those of a bass clef, but it's an engraved publication produced by a fairly prolific engraver. The lettering style of the dynamic markings, we can assume, arises from the fact that the edition was produced before the style was standardized. – phoog Feb 09 '24 at 14:18
  • @OldBrixtonian Music notation wasn't so standardized as we consider it today until the middle of the 19th century, when it was still partially evolving. There were many publishers having their own slightly different versions of what we now take as granted conventions. Even composers sometimes introduced (as they still do today) their own "symbols" even if a known standard already existed (see this example). We cannot exclude an error by the copyist, but we also cannot dismiss these writings as "wrong", considering the possible publication date. – musicamante Feb 09 '24 at 14:42
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    @Peter I thought about a double-flat, but I ruled it out because that would just be a B-flat, and since B's are already flat from the key signature, that would be an unusually convoluted way to write that. – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 15:45
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    @DarrelHoffman Moreso because Cbb is the second-rarest double flat and it's right next to some Bb's. My long shot is that maybe it indicates the flat carries through the measure—are there any normal flats to contradict this? – the-baby-is-you Feb 09 '24 at 16:09
  • @the-baby-is-you That's only potentially relevant in the second cello example and the violin example I just added. In all the other cases, the flatted note is the only note in the measure, so that wouldn't make any sense. – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 16:13
  • @DarrelHoffman No, not particularly, that's why it's a long shot. It's still possible unless there are counterexamples, and I thought it was worth putting the idea out there in case it jogs something else. – the-baby-is-you Feb 09 '24 at 16:15
  • Are there any sharps or naturals in that same score? I wonder if all accidentals were treated that way, not just flats. – Michael Curtis Feb 09 '24 at 16:19
  • Is this the score you're working from? https://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_Concertante_in_E-flat_major%2C_Op.9_(Tapray%2C_Jean-Fran%C3%A7ois) – Michael Curtis Feb 09 '24 at 16:22
  • @MichaelCurtis There are plenty of sharps and naturals, but I haven't seen any with colons. Also there's plenty of other flats without them as well, including on Cs and Fs in the same parts. And yes, that is the score. – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 16:23
  • Still more puzzlingly, the 2nd violin part in the same passage doesn't use the colon on its G flat. I was noticing that there seems to be a musical similarity to all these uses, of a half-step-upper-neighbor, as if a chord is being augmented or diminished as a sort of ornament. – Andy Bonner Feb 09 '24 at 16:26
  • @MichaelCurtis Violin: p.18, Viola: p.28, Cello: p.31-32 – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 16:29
  • @MichaelCurtis I see two instances on p 23; 6th line and 11th. But perplexingly, no corresponding instance in the next-to-bottom line of p 25. – Andy Bonner Feb 09 '24 at 16:29
  • With this upper-neighbor, altered-chord-tone use, I could seriously see executing it as a narrower-than-usual half step, even a quarter tone. I wonder whether that's the meaning, though so far that would be pure speculation. – Andy Bonner Feb 09 '24 at 16:31
  • @AndyBonner Quarter tones would be very unusual for European music in this time period, but a narrower half step remains a possibility - would explain why it's only on the string parts, because the keyboard instruments are not capable of that. The fact that it's only found on Cb and Fb, which are both enharmonic with the natural of the note below, would support that theory. – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 16:40
  • And I feel like in all these examples they're "decorating" either ^1 or ^5. It would be interesting to look at a score and see what chords are actually happening at these moments. Looks like there is one from A-R Editions... – Andy Bonner Feb 09 '24 at 16:43
  • @AndyBonner the piece is in E flat major, so C flat and G flat are the minor third and minor sixth, not so unusual. – phoog Feb 09 '24 at 19:03
  • [Sorry: I wrote this before seeing the above. If it doesn't add anything new I'll delete it in a minute.] I think it could be to do with string players accommodating the fixed tuning of the keyboard. It might have been useful to warn musicians who weren't yet used to equal temperament, that this next note would need sweetening. It's my unfounded belief that the worst clashes in the piece would occur when the keyboards' fixed B met the orchestra's adaptable Cb, and their E their adaptable Fb. – Old Brixtonian Feb 09 '24 at 19:42
  • @OldBrixtonian I honestly don't remember anymore all corrections normally required by equal temperament, but considering the possible publication time, it should've already been quite common to adjust tuning when necessary without further indication. I've not checked the rest of the composition (I'm not able to get a readable display from the PDF at imslp), but, according to the same principle, further adjustments should've been probably noted as well, especially if the piece has modulations that would eventually use other "delicate" notes. Still, I cannot exclude you may have a valid point. – musicamante Feb 09 '24 at 22:51
  • @DarrelHoffman Can you add more context to your latest update? What is the tonality in that point? Because if it's in G minor or D minor, that could enforce Old Brixtonian theory. – musicamante Feb 10 '24 at 00:28
  • @musicamante Well, we've got a constant D, with an alternating Bb/Ab and an alternating Gb/F, so that seems like it's an augmented alternating with a diminished - I guess that'd be a D minor section? My music theory is a bit rusty. – Darrel Hoffman Feb 10 '24 at 02:59
  • @musicamente - The Eb/Fb alternation actually looks like it's decorating a F7 chord near the end of a long exposition section of a sonata-allegro, with a rough Bb chord following (in this B flat major section). The Ab/Bb alternation similarly decorates a Bb7 chord in the recapitulation section, which is finally in the home key of E flat major. There is F/Gb alternation in both passages (and C/Db alternation in the exposition version). – Dekkadeci Feb 10 '24 at 07:35

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Sorry to use an answer but I needed to include this graphic. Unfortunately the quality of the print is poor at this point. (59 bars from the end of the movement.)

enter image description here

The first Cb in the right hand has its colon positioned wrongly. (If you can HAVE a wrong position for a thing that isn't needed!) Then there's one in the left hand with a 'correctly-positioned' one, while the right hand has a wrongly-positioned flat WITH a wrongly-positioned colon!

Colons aren't needed in this context of course. Maybe this edition is unique.

There's a modern edition of the piece here. I haven't managed to find a recording you don't need to pay for!

Old Brixtonian
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    Funny you should mention the lack of recordings - this is the exact reason I am transcribing this. I've been creating synthesized recordings of rare pieces like this and posting them on YouTube. shameless plug – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 17:04
  • From the looks of it, your image comes from the same score I'm using, which is free on IMSLP. On closer inspection, I found a few more examples in both the harpsichord and piano parts. I am even more confused now since they can't bend notes like the strings can... – Darrel Hoffman Feb 09 '24 at 17:27
  • @DarrelHoffman it never seemed likely to me that it indicated anything about the quality of the flat or the magnitude of the change in pitch, but especially not if I'm right that the piano C flat I found without a colon is the same one as shown in the cello part in the question. – phoog Feb 09 '24 at 17:33
  • Tip: if you want to include an image in a comment and don't want to create a "non-answer", you can start creating a new post/reply, upload an image, copy its link, and then discard the answer: the image will be preserved on imgur, and it can be used in comments as a link. I've seen this suggested also by mods in meta SO, as long as it's used with moderation, it's not considered abuse. – musicamante Feb 09 '24 at 22:44
  • @musicamante: Tvm. Belatedly! – Old Brixtonian Feb 26 '24 at 09:45
  • In retrospect, my theory on the "wrongly positioned" colon is that they just moved it down so it wouldn't be hidden by the staff lines. – Darrel Hoffman Mar 09 '24 at 07:05