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I've always loved the l'Arlesienne suite, and intrigued by the way the two melodies overlap near the end. Is there a specific musical term for this overlap? Is is counterpoint, or round, or something else?

Andy Bonner
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Simple Gifts
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    Here's the duplicate I was thinking of: What is the term for multiple simultaneous vocal lines? – Andy Bonner Jun 12 '23 at 14:04
  • Though note, some of those answers are a bit off, and none of them would convey this exact idea on their own without extra explanation. Simultaneous quodlibet is exact enough, but it's usually used for Renaissance music, and it might be presumptuous to assume that your point would be understood. Meanwhile, "counterpoint" can have a very broad definition, meaning simply that multiple voices are being set "against" each other; that's met here; but its narrower definition about a specific set of rules and operations is more common and would cause confusion. – Andy Bonner Jun 12 '23 at 14:09
  • A better question that might be less of a duplicate would seek to describe exactly what kind of counterpoint it is. Is it a round or a chaconne, for instance. Also please give us all a measure number instead of "near the end." – nuggethead Jun 12 '23 at 14:46
  • @nuggethead Is a chaconne contrapuntal by definition? I always understood it as a form — one that was popular in the Baroque era, but not necessarily contrapuntal in itself. – Aaron Jun 12 '23 at 15:25
  • @Aaron I suppose no, chaconnes are not necessarily contrapuntal by nature but usually were contrapuntal just as a feature of being in the Baroque period? – nuggethead Jun 12 '23 at 15:48
  • @nuggethead That makes sense. Certainly in the Baroque they were contrapuntal. I appreciate the clarification. – Aaron Jun 12 '23 at 17:53
  • Thanks folks, for all the comments. A contemporary example of this effect is in the last verse of The Guess Who's "No Sugar Tonight / New Mother Nature." – Simple Gifts Jun 13 '23 at 16:01
  • @Aaron since a chaconne is primarily a set of variations over a repeated relatively simple bass line of just a few measures' length, chaconnes that were not contrapuntal would be either short or boringly repetitive. There are examples that are minimally contrapuntal, though, for example solo violin plus continuo. – phoog Jul 13 '23 at 20:25

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I guess we're talking about the Farandole that completes L'Arlesienne Suite No. 2? Yes, when the two themes combine at the end of this piece, it's counterpoint. Just straightforward counterpoint. One melody playing against another melody.

There's a more specific type of counterpoint near the beginning, where the main theme is played against itself, offset by a few beats. This is called 'Canon'. A simple vocal piece that has several canonic entries and keeps repeating round and round is called - yes, you've guessed it, a Round. And while we're mentioning imitative counterpoint, we'd better at least mention Fugue.

But 'Counterpoint' is a very wide term. It doesn't have to be imitative, it can simply be two tunes that fit together. In the broadest sense, it's anything that isn't either a solo melody or block chords. And even when writing block chords, whenever we notice that it's a good effect to have the bass line moving up when the melody moves down, that's a 'counterpoint' issue. In fact, by even thinking in terms of a 'bass line', we're in the realm of counterpoint.

It's ALL counterpoint, baby!

Laurence
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  • "it's all counterpoint": some of what you describe is usually called "voice leading." Counterpoint by any other name would sound as sweet. – phoog Jul 13 '23 at 20:31