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Most of us are familiar with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Leonardo fights with two katana, one in each hand. In every other movie I have ever seen in which katana appear, they are treated as a two-handed weapon.

Does anyone really use two full sized katana at once?

brazofuerte
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Wad Cheber
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    This could be an okay question if you dropped the reference to a cartoon.... – slugster Aug 11 '15 at 05:38
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    My downvote is because your question shows you did no research whatsoever. 'nuff said. – Sardathrion - against SE abuse Aug 12 '15 at 12:28
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    I guess part of the question I'd have is, what sort of answer are you looking for? A brief search on the web will find reference to fighting with two swords, nitoken or nitojutsu. Miyamato Musashi wrote of wielding one sword in each hand. To my understanding, this is generally taught with the off-hand having a smaller sword, about 2/3 the size. However, I'm sure that we can find a picture of someone fighting with a katana in each hand if we want. Are you looking for famous cases? Anyone? Does it have to be full-size in each hand? – Macaco Branco Aug 12 '15 at 18:05
  • Wad, can you clarify your question for us, assuming that you wish to continue asking it? – Macaco Branco Aug 17 '15 at 15:42
  • The wording "full-sized" is redundant here. You are probably thinking of a combination of a Katana (long sword) and a Wakazashi (short sword) versus a combination of two Katana. – The Wudang Kid Aug 20 '15 at 15:26
  • @TheWudangKid - Tell that to Sean. – Wad Cheber Aug 20 '15 at 15:27
  • @TheWudangKid: He and I talked for a bit over chat. He really is curious as to whether there is a viable style involving two full-sized katanas. I don't believe that there is, although there are examples of people doing kata and there are, of course, fictional examples a la Leonardo. – Macaco Branco Aug 20 '15 at 19:46
  • @Sean Duggan Unless I grossly misunderstood, Musashi spoke of training with two Katana at once. However, I have seen some commentators put emphasis on the "training" part there, saying that it helped develop coordination in training but was not the appropriate technique for competitions or genuine fights. – TimothyAWiseman Aug 21 '15 at 16:17
  • @TimothyAWiseman: You can read a decent translation of The Book of Five Rings at https://www.uvm.edu/~asnider/IDAS_2011_CD/Teachers/Steve%20Llano's%20Materials/Strategy%20Books/Book%20of%20Five%20Rings%20-%20Musashi.pdf wherein he specifically refers to "the long sword and the sword" that are carried and how to fight with them. – Macaco Branco Aug 21 '15 at 18:24
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    @TheWudangKid It's not as simple a matter as you suggest. Katana are not, and were not, a uniform size (and sword size and shape was largely dependent of the fashion of the age). Ko-, chu-, and o- all exist as linguistic size modifiers for sword size. There is even some weird crossover with references to o-wakizashi (great short sword) and ko-gatana (short long sword). I think the terminology (like in the West) is largely a product of modern attempts at classification. Historically, it was probably just a weapon made to the specifications of someone's personal preference or perceived need. – Zen_Hydra Jun 06 '16 at 15:14
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    @TimothyAWiseman Musashi's intent was for a swordsman to train to be ambidextrous in order to wield a katana in one's off-hand if their dominant hand was no longer able. He was all about practicality and using the right tool for the job (and very importantly, de-mystifying the cult of the sword). His Niten Ichi-ryu has techniques for using the katana and wakizashi together (and separately), but not really using two equal length weapons (it would have been gauche two wear two katana in Musashi's lifetime). I'd also argue that two unequal length weapons have advantages over two of equal length. – Zen_Hydra Jun 06 '16 at 15:25
  • This question has weird echos of Inosuke Hashibara... (His fighting style, I mean.) – Deko Revinio Apr 04 '23 at 20:32

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Yes. Contrary to what the average "expert" on swords and Japanese swordsmanship will tell you online (along with their obligatory mentions to Miyamoto Musashi who everyone obligatorily must mention whenever dual-wielding Japanese swords is discussed even though in his own book he clearly states using two swords is nothing new in Japan and there are many styles predating Musashi's Niten-Ichi Ryu that show katana and wakizashi being used like the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu note: that image is from a Yagyu Shinkage Ryu scroll that dates to about 1601 when Musashi was only 17 and only just starting to get into dueling), it is possible to fence with two full length katana/uchigatana at once and there is historical evidence showing that it was done. Chinese and Korean depictions of Japanese pirates i.e. Wokou(倭寇) clearly depict them using two swords of identical size that don't seem to be any sort of wakizashi/kodachi: enter image description here enter image description here In addition, the Aizu Kage Ryu Densho (dated to the Late Muromachi Period - Azuchi-Momoyama Period) housed in the Tokyo National Museum clearly shows techniques with two full length katana in addition to techniques with two wakizashi/kodachi. enter image description here enter image description here So, yes. Dual wielding katanas is historical and doable and you don't have to be Miyamoto Musashi, Deadpool, or a Ninja Turtle to do it! :P

EDIT: Just to add a bit to the answer, while not strictly "katana" if you mean that word to apply to ONLY Japanese swords, the historical Korean manual Muyedobotongji/무예도보통지/武藝圖譜通志 does show dual wielding a pair of katana-like swords in it. enter image description here

JZBai
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  • Very nice details. Great pictures. – LemmyX Oct 10 '20 at 02:20
  • Did they really go into battle sans any form of lower body garment, like that first picture implies? – nick012000 Jan 11 '22 at 09:22
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    @nick012000 Possibly, but it's a bit complicated. Very poor ashigaru are sometimes depicted as not wearing much leg armor in Japanese artwork, and the Wokou being a bunch of pirates would similarly not be as well equipped as a fully supplied samurai. With that said, I've personally never seen ashigaru depicted butt naked like in this depiction of the Wokou before in Japanese artwork. It could be that the pirates in question were just THAT poor, or it could very well be the Chinese artists taking artistic liberties to characterize these "dwarf pirates" as "barbaric" and "uncivilized." – JZBai Jun 18 '22 at 23:16
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    @nick012000 Just adding some pictures here to qualify the statement I made before of ashigaru being poorly armored in the leg area: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/24/d9/1824d9c699b330af8cf07707b758895f.jpg https://krigetkommer.weebly.com/uploads/5/3/7/4/53742873/3570228_orig.jpg https://historum.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ft97cltZ.jpg&hash=fc887dcc909da1b72168c7f1af0255d2 – JZBai Jun 18 '22 at 23:22
  • Can you elaborate on the context of these a bit more? As is, they appear to be just a handful of isolated illustrations (and there are lots of fanciful e.g. western art of wholely unrealistic weapons / warriors in the same period). Are any of these actually descriptive of techniques taught or used by swordsmen? – brazofuerte Mar 12 '23 at 10:17
  • @brazofuerte, sure. The illustrations are part of what seems to be a set of Mokuroku/technique catalogue scrolls associated with the Aizu Kage Ryu. Admittedly, they are a bit fanciful sometimes kind of like what you see in Talhoffer or Fiore's weird poisonous polearm. With that said, later technique catalogues and living traditions of Shinkage Ryu seem to reference some of the techniques in the scrolls akin to how Joachim Meyer references older sources. If you want more info, I highly recommend checking out this book: https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-School-Sword-Aisu-Ikosai/dp/1950959287/ – JZBai May 01 '23 at 07:04
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    P.S. Just adding this link here if you want the page from Tokyo National Museum that shows the full set of scrolls in their database for better detail: https://webarchives.tnm.jp/imgsearch/show/E0032799 Also regarding the first two images which come from period artwork: The first is a detail from "Victory in Taiwan by Qiu Shizhou of the Ming" by Qiu Ying (1494-c.1559) and the second is a painting of the Siege of Busanjin ( https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Siege-of-Busanjin-1592.jpg ). Muyedobotongji images should be self-explanatory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muyedobotongji – JZBai May 01 '23 at 08:19
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The book of five rings, written by Miyamoto Musashi around 1645, advocates two-sword fencing style (nitōjutsu): that is, wielding both katana and wakizashi.

He does, however, states that you should use two long swords while training!!

Alaychem goes to Codidact
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There are a few forms in Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto ryu. I know they exist, but was not able to progress to that level in my local school. Here is a link to a video of the style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2xmfyZSn80

Craig Edgmon
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  • Meanwhile in Europe, duel wielding two equally-sized weapons was considered showboating. I wonder if that was the case for Japan as well. Hm... – PipperChip Jun 20 '22 at 19:07
  • @PipperChip Could be. But such showboating is honestly a part of many martial art systems from a lot of cultures be they Asian or European, etc. How practical such techniques are wasn't really a part of the original question. "Fight" is a bit of an ambiguous term and could mean life or death combat on a battlefield or duel or perhaps mock fighting in a fencing salle, gym, or dojo. The fact they are historically documented and end up in martial arts traditions though means it is probably important to mention such techniques to answer the question since this is Martial Arts Stack Exchange. – JZBai May 01 '23 at 07:43
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Dual wielding of equal weapons is relatively rare in warfare historically. Wielding a smaller secondary weapon is much more common (e.g. rapier + parrying dagger, katana + wakizashi, tomahawk + longknife). However, there are a few cases (though all of these are 'small' weapons, none the size of katanas):

  • Dual sai (Okinawan martial arts)
  • Dual butterfly swords / dual hook swords (Chinese martial arts)
  • Dual siccae / dual gladius (dimachaerus)
brazofuerte
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  • Also dual kama, tongfa and tanbo. – Alaychem goes to Codidact Sep 25 '19 at 19:19
  • Great point about parrying daggers—my understanding is that they were highly effective back in the day. Chinese practice also has a tradition of dual straight swords, although, in my experience, while there are a number of techniques that can only be applied with 2 swords, the formal forms are much less rich than single sword. (Sometimes I practice single sword forms with a second sword for fun & research.) My teacher also liked to practice long sword, and double handed sword one-handed, with a light weapon with different balance in the off hand, just for the sheer difficulty. – DukeZhou Oct 27 '20 at 00:29
  • I am late to the party here, but IMHO shields are weapons and therefore one dual wields with them. Feel free to disagree, but it's held in the hand and can be active in defense and offense. (Under this view, armor is strictly worn and is more passive.) – PipperChip Jun 20 '22 at 18:56
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This would be within the realms of possibility. I would not rule out the existence of some kata for this, because there are hundreds of Japanese sword schools. But, it is unlikely.

To understand why, you need to know what a katana is. It is not a general term for a Japanese sword. It is not a weapon designed for the battlefield. A katana was one of the swords carried as a marker of social privilege (and responsibility) by the members of the Military Government. The other was the wakizashi.

They form a pair, because the katana is a long sword for two hands which is not suitable for all occasions. Indoors for example.

So, there are some techniques for dual wielding katana and wakizashi. But not very many. Situations where it might be useful include corridors and when surrounded.

But since people did not carry two long swords, there is no reason for there to be techniques for fighting with two long swords.

History aside, there are also mechanical problems. If you really want to use both hands, it would be far better two use two one-handed swords.

Yet Another Geek
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  • Meanwhile in Europe, dual wielding (of equal sized weapons) was practiced as SHOWBOATING! (Sarcasm) The Japanese are obviously too humble and reserved to ever do such a thing. (/sarcasm) This answer could be improved by going into what mechanical issues there are. – PipperChip Jun 20 '22 at 19:03
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As Sean said, nito ryu teach the way to fight with a katana and a wakizashi, but in real fight, on a ground battle, a samurai could use those technique with a second full sized katana. I practised it and i don't remember any technique which wouldn't work with two katana. There is some Kenjutsu Dojo that are able to teach it if you wanna try it

Erchos
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  • Do you mean ground battle as in on foot (as opposed to horseback), or as in grappling? – The Wudang Kid Sep 09 '15 at 11:52
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    Excuse my bad english I meant huge battle between two armies, a samurai surrounded by many ennemies could grab a additional sword from a fallen foe to defend himself – Erchos Sep 09 '15 at 12:31
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Leonardo actually uses 2 ninja swords. A ninja sword is NOT a Katana. In this case yes, dual wielding ninja swords is fine. Otherwise dual wielding 2 katanas almost never happened and still does not with modern people training traditional arts/combat. Dual wielding a katana and a smaller weapon like others have mentioned was and is the common scenario for katana use…Again though Leonardo originally used and is suppose to use Ninja Swords. Often and confusingly people think that type or sword is a nick name for a Katana which is incorrect. Two very different types of swords/weapons.

Joe Musashi
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