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Part I of "Annoying the TSA"

For good reason, U.S. law forbids people from carrying firearms on planes. However, last I checked, black powder "antique weapons" (such as cap-and-ball revolvers) aren't considered firearms.

With that in mind, would it be legal to carry an unloaded (since you aren't allowed to have black powder or primers) cap-and-ball revolver on a plane?

Note: I'm not asking for legal advice, nor do I plan to actually do so if it's legal; this is just a random "what-if" thought that's been bugging me for the last few months.

In Hoc Signo
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    This definition only applies to the National Firearm Act. Louisiana defines a firearm as: For the purposes of this Section, "firearm" means any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, submachine gun, black powder weapon, or assault rifle which is designed to fire or is capable of firing fixed cartridge ammunition or from which a shot or projectile is discharged by an explosive. – Tiger Guy Jun 26 '23 at 20:01
  • @TigerGuy the Louisiana definition will have even less relevance than the National Firearm Act definition to the question of whether it's allowed on an airplane. – phoog Jun 26 '23 at 20:09
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    Do you understand that you cannot fly with even toy guns? Even if they look like "space lasers" more than pistols? You cannot fly with a paper-weight that resembles a hand grenade. The TSA has detailed info here: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/all and https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/firearms – abelenky Jun 26 '23 at 20:15
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    @TigerGuy : ah, so a Girardoni air rifle would be perfectly legal to carry on a plane? Even loaded and pressurized? – vsz Jun 27 '23 at 04:04
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    @vsz I don't think an air rifle is classified as a "firearm", since it doesn't use fire. It is obviously a dangerous weapon, along with crossbows, catapults, swords, knives, clubs, nun-chucks and shiriken. All of which are banned on aircraft. – Oscar Bravo Jun 27 '23 at 08:14
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    @vsz the ban is on weapons not firearms – Trish Jun 27 '23 at 08:38
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    Well before 9/11, in fact some time back in the 1980s, I had to box up a softball bat at the check-in counter because I was not going to be allowed to carry it on the plane. So yeah, the scope of what counts as a "weapon" is broad and has been for some time. – shoover Jun 27 '23 at 18:00
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    Famously, the TSA has prevented people from boarding with objects that almost nobody would consider a weapon - fingernail clippers, metal rulers, protractors, teasing-combs, even a weighted bookmark. Prior to 9/11 nobody would've considered box-cutters could be effective weapons, so it's sort of understandable, but it has gotten a bit over-blown. – Darrel Hoffman Jun 28 '23 at 17:58
  • Please note that it is lawful to transport firearms in checked luggage with certain requirements; unloaded, locked container, etc. – chili555 Jun 28 '23 at 23:31
  • For those of us who are not gun-fans, can you explain in what sense a revolver is not considered a "firearm" just because it uses one type of gunpowder (black powder) over another kind. – abelenky Jun 29 '23 at 16:02
  • The reference to 9/11 is a really unfortunate lack of understanding of what happened. It really has nothing to do with what was ALLOWED on the planes. It has to do with what pilots did when being hijacked. Before 9/11, the procedure was to do what the hijackers asked, because this increases the chance of the hijackers safely letting the plane land and keep everyone safe. 9/11 will never repeat itself again because you can bet nobody will let hijackers into the cockpit anymore. Heck, the plane that crashed near camp David had passengers fighting back. – Nelson Jun 30 '23 at 01:07
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    TSA wouldn't have stopped 9/11, because the pilots would've let the hijackers into the cockpit! TSA is pure theater. Just look at operational procedures from pre-9/11 and pilot response to hijacking, and CIA/FBI recommended playbooks. TSA isn't solving a problem that exists... it is already solved. – Nelson Jun 30 '23 at 01:08
  • @abelenky a revolver is a firearm by normal definitions. 26 USC § 5845(a) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845), however, gives a definition of "firearm" that excludes "antique firearms," among other things that are, in any other context, firearms. It also includes silencers, which are not actually firearms. – Someone Aug 04 '23 at 16:47

3 Answers3

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The relevant regulations in 49 CFR 1540 refer to weapons, not firearms, and unless you are specifically permitted, you cannot carry a weapon in your carry-on luggage. The interpretation of "weapon" is given here, which says

Weapons are objects that may be used to attack another. TSA considers an item to be a weapon under 49 CFR 1540.111 if it is created for use as a weapon or is so similar to an item created as a weapon that it appears to be, or is easily used as, a weapon.

Weapons include firearms, as well as realistic replicas of firearms that may reasonably be thought to be actual weapons. Such realistic replicas are prohibited because their similarity in appearance to real weapons may allow them to be used to intimidate passengers and flight crew. The screener has the discretion to determine when a replica is so realistic that it should be prohibited. Other toy weapons will be allowed in the sterile areas and cabin.

Partial weapons and parts of weapons also are prohibited because they may be carried separately by collaborators for assembly subsequent to entry or boarding. In addition, partial weapons may appear to be operative and could be used to intimidate passengers and flight crew.

user6726
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  • Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here. Before posting a comment below this one, please review the purposes of comments. Comments that do not request clarification or suggest improvements usually belong as an answer, on [meta], or in [chat]. Comments continuing discussion may be removed. – feetwet Jun 28 '23 at 18:28
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TSA considers Antique Firearms the same as any other Weapon, even unloaded ones.

CFR 49 § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

(a) On an individual's person or accessible property—prohibitions. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individual's person or accessible property—

(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or

(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an aircraft for which screening is conducted under §§ 1544.201, 1546.201, or 1562.23 of this chapter.

Firearms in the relevant law only appear for law enforcement during duties (§ 1540.111 (b)) and the transport in checked luggage. (§ 1540.111 (c)). The Sterile area is past the TSA checkpoint.

In 2021, TSA stopped a person in Newark for trying to fly with an unloaded antique revolver. They could not fly with the gun in their carry-on bag, he was allowed to deposit the gun somewhere off premises, but it is not known if they returned in time to catch their flight.

Trish
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Black powder guns are considered firearms, they are just treated differently than modern cartridge fed weapons under the sub-set "antique firearms". This category changes how the ATF regulates them, specifically with regard to dealer licensing requirements, shipping, logging sales, performing background checks, etc.

However, the TSA is not part of the ATF, and considering the extensive list of things banned from the passenger cabin of airliners, (including BB guns, which are not firearms) it would be illogical to presume that antique status of a weapon might make it acceptable to carry one onto an airplane.

Michael Hall
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    Tthe reason OP presumes the antique status is relevant is that the TSA cites 18 USC Ch. 44, which states that the term firearm "does not include an antique firearm." Of course, the TSA has also issued press releases warning that antique and replica firearms are disallowed. – Brian Jun 26 '23 at 19:22
  • @Brian, as well as pneumatic guns, which are even more definitely not firearms. – Michael Hall Jun 26 '23 at 19:24
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    It should be pointed out that most collectors of antique firearms consider them more desirable if they are in working condition despite their age, and many are as lethal today as they were back in the day (most innovations in guns improved accuracy or rate of fire. Small bits of metal traveling at supersonic speeds are still the primary kill mechanism.). – hszmv Jun 26 '23 at 19:35
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    @hszmv, I agree with you, but I don't think it's relevant to the answer. Velocity was another innovation occurring around the time of the 1898 changeover. (Most BP weapons and current cartridge pistols are subsonic BTW). – Michael Hall Jun 26 '23 at 19:41