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I would like to translate the following into Latin:

When a hen begs you to pick her up, you pick her up.

Here's my attempt:

Gallina tollenda, quae tolli rogat.

Is there a better way to express that? Thanks!

(For the record: I don't have any chickens. This is just a comment that a certain woman made to her husband, and I thought it was funny.)

Expedito Bipes
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3 Answers3

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Here is one expression in hexameter:

Si qua roget gallina leves, est illa levanda.
Should any hen ask you to lift, it must be lifted.

You never asked for a metric expression, but I was unable to resist.

I assumed "you" is not a specific person, so I went with a general conditional. Such a condition is often expressed by the conjunctive in Latin, whence roget instead of rogat (as I had in my original version).

In general, I think statements like this are best made with si quis/qua/quid and a general conditional. The pronoun aliquis often drops the ali- after si. The pronoun quă is a uniquely light word.

In metric poetry I don't have the luxury of clarity like in prose, so slight ambiguity remains. My "it" is a feminine singular, so without further context it must be the hen, and the object of leves is clear enough. It may be technically ambiguous, it is practically clear, just like in English where the two instances of "her" could technically refer to different things. I did contemplate a passive along the lines of si qua velit/roget gallina levetur… but I did not find a way to finish within one line, at least not as nicely.

Joonas Ilmavirta
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  • llmavirta: "Should any hen ask you to lift her(self), she must be lifted." Small things, but don't spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar. The hen could've been asking you to lift the Empire State Building; unlikely, but you never know. – tony Mar 29 '21 at 12:29
  • @Expedito Bipes: Is there any particular reason why yourself wanted this? – tony Mar 29 '21 at 12:30
  • @tony In metric poetry I don't have the luxury of clarity like in prose. I did not see a neat way to insert an object for leves, so I considered it enough to indirectly hint at it. What I translated by "it" is a feminine singular, so without further context it must be the hen. I did contemplate a passive along the lines of si qua velit gallina levetur but I did not find a way to finish within one line, at least not as nicely. – Joonas Ilmavirta Mar 29 '21 at 14:59
  • You're going for a present general here? If so, you may want to choose a different word than "should." Your translation doesn't match a present general conditional. – cmw Mar 29 '21 at 20:00
  • @C.M.Weimer Yes, I'm indeed using the present tense as a general time. But your comment puzzles me, probably because I'm missing a bit of English grammar. Which auxiliary should I be using, and what is the wrong message conveyed by "should"? It seems this is more a question of English than Latin if I understand correctly. – Joonas Ilmavirta Mar 29 '21 at 20:26
  • Conditional are tricky, but here is the relevant A&G on general conditions. Conditionals in Latin do not work the same way as conditionals in English (or Swedish - no idea about Finnish, sorry!). – cmw Mar 29 '21 at 22:16
  • Is the rhythm of Si qua rogat… "long long short long…"? If so, does qua not scan or is this a customary correption? – Ben Kovitz Mar 29 '21 at 22:57
  • Ordinary English would be: "If a hen asks you to lift her, she must be lifted." If you're wondering why "her" is necessary (it is indeed necessary), I'd have to think about it. It might even be a good question for ell.stackexchange.com. (Not that I'm suggesting that you phrase it in ordinary English.) – Ben Kovitz Mar 29 '21 at 23:02
  • Regarding quă, I just found the answer. Wow, I did not even know this pronoun before! – Ben Kovitz Mar 29 '21 at 23:09
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    @BenKovitz Isn't it just aliqua, which drops the ali- after si? – cmw Mar 29 '21 at 23:21
  • @C.M.Weimer Thanks! All this time, I didn't even know. I just assumed it was (only) aliquae and never looked closely. Wow, you never know what you're going to learn by checking scansion! – Ben Kovitz Mar 29 '21 at 23:30
  • @Ben Kovitz: Without "her", the hen could be asking for anything to be lifted e.g. Joonas's Empire State Building (above). It may even need to be reflexive ("herself"); otherwise the hen may be asking for a secondary female creature to be lifted. – tony Mar 30 '21 at 09:01
  • @Joonas llmavirta: If you had been writing prose would you have used reflexive pronoun, "se", to make it unequivocal that the hen is referring to herself, not another female creature; or, God forbid, The Empire State? – tony Mar 30 '21 at 09:10
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    @tony I don't know what "Joonas's ESB" refers to; you brought it up. I think it is common in Latin to leave things up to context, and I don't think I would have actually inserted an explicit object even in prose. I assumed no further context (if there is any relevant context, it should be supplied in the question, but I don't think there was this time), so while it may be technically ambiguous, it is practically clear. It's the same in English: nothing guarantees that the two "her"s are the same. If I need to resolve this tiny ambiguity, my preferred method is the passive. – Joonas Ilmavirta Mar 30 '21 at 09:26
  • @Joonas llmavirta: The original joke, above, about the Empire State Building. – tony Mar 30 '21 at 09:28
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    @tony I remember that, I was only asking about the possession. I was just pointing out that the building was yours, not mine. – Joonas Ilmavirta Mar 30 '21 at 09:30
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    @JoonasIlmavirta Thanks for your answer! – Expedito Bipes Apr 03 '21 at 09:55
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From my admittedly inexperienced and semi-educated perspective,

Gallina tollenda, quae tolli rogat.

is excellent. It's clear and snappy. Ending on rogat concisely suggests what the English version suggests: that the hen's wishes are paramount. The English "you pick her up" means "it's just in the nature of things that you must pick her up; do not question it"—and this also fits Gallina tollenda. Perhaps rogat lacks the notion of begging, but I think precatur or orat would go overboard; those words would weaken the undertone that the hen is to be obeyed unquestioningly.

Ben Kovitz
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I'm thinking a future less conditional here with the imperative substituted for the apodosis:

Tolle, si qua gallina tolli desideret.

Pick her up, should any hen desire to be picked up.

I chose desidero as I'm interpreting the hen here as more than merely asking, but also wanting. In that, velle or desiderare are better choices.

cmw
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