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For orders & requests, I notice Japanese natives often add で after the thing they want. Here's a real-life example:

客:「この桜抹茶ラッテをひとつ、お願いします。」 (Customer: I'll have one of these sakura maccha lattes please.)

店員:「はい、わかりました。こちらホットとアイスがございますが。」 (Staff: Got it. We have this in hot or iced but (which do you want?))

客:「アイスで、お願いします。」 (Customer: Iced please.)

I know it's nitpicky, but what exactly is that で in アイスで? Is it the "て form" of だ/です, or the "scope/condition/circumstances" で particle? Either of them seem like they could be appropriate. For clarity, here's examples of each to show that I mean:

山下先生は　日本人で　５０歳ぐらいです。 Yamashita-sensei is Japanese and about 50 years old. (The "て form" of だ/です to connect the phrases with "and")

山田さんは　18歳で　大学に　入りました。Yamada-san entered college at 18 years old. (で particle)

智也君は　一人で　人形を　作りました。Tomoya-kun made a figure by himself. (で particle)

Thanks in advance!

Hikonyan
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    This is a great question. I've thought of it sometimes but I concluded that both explanations can work, so I never bothered to clarify for myself. Thanks for asking this question for me! – dvx2718 Jan 28 '24 at 21:25
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    Other than the examples provided, I've seem things like 「生ビールで」or「オレンジジュースで」when ordering at a restaurant. Seems like 「〜で（お願い）」is a common set phrase for ordering stuff – dvx2718 Jan 28 '24 at 21:27
  • I think considering it as a particle is more reasonable, but you may know ウナギ文 (e.g. this). In the similar manner, regarding じゃあ僕はウナギで, it could be argued that is a te-form of copula. – sundowner Jan 30 '24 at 09:34

1 Answers1

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As a native speaker, I often try replacing a questionable で with でして or であり, and see if the sentence still makes sense:

  • ❌アイスでしてお願いします。
  • ❌アイスでありお願いします。

These look incorrect to me, which means the original で is a particle.

The same で can also modify various other verbs:

  • コーヒーをアイスで飲む。
  • ピザをトッピングなしで注文する。
  • 激辛で行ってみる？

In the following examples, something like お願いします is omitted, so I think these で are still particles:

  • アイスで。
    Iced, please.
  • 全部入りで。
    Everything.
  • 以上で。
    That's it.

For comparison, here are examples where で is used as the te-form of だ. Either でして or であり also works:

  • 私はアイスでブラックのコーヒーが好きです。(joining two no-adjectives)
  • 今日は暑いので、出されたコーヒーがアイスで良かった。(te-form for reason)
  • 私はアイスで、彼はホットです。("eel sentence")
  • それが、昨日飲んだコーヒーがアイスでね…。(で for 言いさし)
naruto
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  • That "でして・であり test" is an interesting idea! Thanks for solidly answering the question. – Hikonyan Jan 29 '24 at 03:51