I have stumbled upon this link on the web: http://www.languagesandnumbers.com/how-to-count-in-italian/en/ita/.
I states: "Numbers are grouped in words of three digits, with the specific rule that a space is added after the word for thousand if its multiplier is greater than one hundred and does not end with a double zero (e.g.: duemilatrecentoquarantacinque [2,345], seicentomiladue [600,002], settecentosessantacinquemila duecento [765,200])."
I cannot find any confirmation in any Italian source. Moreover, in some reports of Italian authorities, I always see such complex numbers written as a single word, regardless of the "double zero" presence.
So, is this rule a nonsense?
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2I never heard of it, and I don't trust too much that web page (for instance, biliardo is “billiards”, the game, not 10^15), but you never know. – DaG Oct 13 '17 at 16:57
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1I had half an idea that we already covered something similar: here it is. More importantly, in a page of the Treccani website you can find a counterexample to that alleged rule: seicentocinquantaquattromilatrecentoventuno for 654,321. – DaG Oct 13 '17 at 17:02
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1@DaG See http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/biliardo_%28Enciclopedia-della-Matematica%29/ for “biliardo”. Apart from that strange and wrong rule on adding a space, the page seems fully correct to me. – egreg Oct 14 '17 at 06:56
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@egreg: Thanks. I just find it strange that this word only appears in the Enciclopedia della matematica and in no other reference work, either by Treccani or other publishers (and I used to be a mathematician, so this is not some sort of prejudice). – DaG Oct 14 '17 at 08:48
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@DaG I find it strange too. Personally I prefer American style “small scale”. – egreg Oct 14 '17 at 09:00
1 Answers
I have never heard that rule. In Italy we learn to read and write numbers this way:
Reading and writing 3 digits numbers:
100 = cento. It is an exception to the rule, you read “cento”, not “unocento”.
200 = duecento
300 = trecento
400 = quattrocento
430 = quattrocentotrenta
432 = quattrocentotrentadue
707 = settecentosette
RULE:
if, after thousands, you have a 80 number, you have to delete one “o”:
180 = centottanta (not: centoottanta)
287 = duecentottantasette (not: duecentoottantasette)
if, after thousands, you have number 8, you have to leave the double “o”
708 = settecentootto
808 = ottocentootto
Reading and writing 4 digits numbers:
fist of all, in Italy we write 1.000 with a dot to group thousands, not comma.
Comma is used as “decimal point”, which separates decimal numbers from the whole number.
A number in standard form is separated into groups of three digits:
1.000 10.000 100.000 1.000.000
To read them, 1.000 is an exception to the rule, you read “mille”, not “unomila”
2.000 = duemila
3.000 = tremila
10.000 = diecimila
15.000 = quindicimila
100.000 = centomila
107.311 = centosettemilatrecentoundici
765.200 = settecentosessantacinquemiladuecento (your example)
RULE TO READ:
- you read the number at the left of the dot
- you read the dot as “mila”;
- you read the digits at the right of the dot. If you have only “zero” digits, you have to stop:
10.000 = diecimila (“10” = dieci + “.” = mila “000” = nothing to write or read)
199.000 = centonovantanovemila
199.007 = centonovantanovemilasette
Reading and writing 6 digits numbers:
1.000.000 = un milione
1.001.001 = un milione e milleuno
Reading and writing 10 digits numbers:
1.001.001.001 = un miliardo, un milione e milleuno
507.935.399.011 = cinquecentosettemiliardi, novecentotrentacinque milioni, trecentonovantanovemila e undici
507.935.888.333 = cinquecentosettemiliardi, novecentotrentacinque milioni, ottocentottantottomila e trecentotrentatré
Reading and writing 13 digits numbers:
1.000.000.000.000 = un bilione (= mille miliardi)
1.001.001.001.001 = un bilione, un miliardo, un milione e milleuno
Hope this helps.
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Good answer. It might be worth mentioning that sometimes one might also see an apostrophe (') used as a symbol to group thousands, especially in scholastic contexts. – Easymode44 Apr 12 '19 at 13:10
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1@Easymode44 the apostrophe is only used in Swiss italian (e.g.: http://www.caffe.ch/stories/economia/62634_la_badante__un_lusso_4mila_franchi_al_mese/). In Italy a high dot is sometime used instead of the normal one, mainly in handwriting (I guess there's a specific Unicode character for it, but I'm not sure). – Old Man of Aran Apr 12 '19 at 15:42
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Yes, I know they use apostrophe in Switzerland, but only for currencies and coordinates, for other units of measurement they use comma. In Italy I have never seen that. – Apr 12 '19 at 15:49
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1The apostrophe is never used as a separator, just the dot. Some publishers, however, shun the dot and prefer a half-space. – DaG Apr 12 '19 at 21:06
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1Personally, even though they are defined in the vocabularies, I'd avoid bilione (and its cousin trilione), since in my experience only misunderstanding and confusion come from them. – DaG Apr 12 '19 at 21:08
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1Wow, I'm impressed by the comments! I myself going to school in Rome have been taught (at least up until high school) to use apostrophes when separating groups of thousands. I might have had a quaint (or Swiss) teacher, I guess, nevertheless good point @OldManofAran, it is mainly in handwriting that one sees this. – Easymode44 Apr 13 '19 at 12:18