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The definition I've found is "a northern wind" blowing in Spain, France or Italy. There's an old Italian song, however, where the word is used and such a definition would make no sense. To my non-native ears, it sounds like some colloquial usage. The lyrics go something like this:

Mi piaccion nere, mi piaccion bionde, Mi piaccion tutte le donne al mondo, E per il pizzo di una sottana, Perdo sempre la tramontana. L'ho perduta e la perderò.

PS. Excuse me but my Italian is very poor so I have to write in English.

Charo
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Centaurus
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    It's a very strong cold wind coming from the north, very typical at the northern coastal aerea (Empordà) of my country (Catalonia). You can find some information at Wikipedia. – Charo Sep 09 '16 at 17:17
  • There are two answers but I'm still waiting for a well-written and coherent answer. – Centaurus Sep 10 '16 at 16:01
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    @Centaurus - in what way the existing posts do not answer your question? The expression you need to understand is the metaphor "perdere la tramontana" which is quite an old saying. That is what the song is about. –  Sep 10 '16 at 18:56
  • @xxxxxx I appreciate the efforts to answer my question, I could understand what they tried to explain and I have upvoted both answers. I don't think, however, they are well-written and some sentences like "In this case tramontana is employed metaphorically to indicate the North" just don't fit. – Centaurus Sep 11 '16 at 01:10
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    @Centaurus - I am probably missing the point you want to make. The tramontana, be it a wind or a star, is a metaphor for orientation which, if you lose it, you are at a loss, you don't know where to go or what to do. This metaphorical sense is used only in the saying "perdere la la tramontana", you would not say "I am looking for the tramontana, or I found the tramontana", it is a set phrase, a proverb which the song used in its lyrics. What is that you still don't understand? –  Sep 11 '16 at 06:28
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    Centaurus, I believe you have now all the information to write an answer yourself, exactly phrased the way you deem it should be. – DaG Sep 11 '16 at 11:12
  • Given your interest in the song, I post a link that put the song, its lyrics and those who wrote and sang it in the context of those years. Hope it helps: http://karahidden.blogspot.com/2011/01/la-tramontana-storia-della-canzone.html –  Sep 23 '16 at 13:03

3 Answers3

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The song you are referring to is La tramontana, sung by Antoine in 1968, actually a French singer.

According to the following source "la tramontana" in ancient times, before the compass was invented, was used by sailors to refer to the North Star. When the star was not clearly visible sailors could easily lose their way. This may be the origin of modern usage of "perdere la tramontana" that is lose one's way or figuratively, be at a loss, not know what to do.

  • Prima dell'invenzione della bussola, i naviganti chiamavano tramontana la stella polare. Quando essa non era visibile a causa del cielo nuvoloso, l'orientamento era impossibile. Forse è in relazione a ciò che il detto citato viene riferito a chi non sa cosa fare. Proverbi

I'd add that the expression is dated and is not commonly used nowadays.

Community
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  • Thank you for your answer. As for the singer, actually I heard it sung by GIANNI PETTENATI, an Italian. – Centaurus Sep 09 '16 at 23:32
  • @Centaurus - yes, the song was actually sung by both singers at the Sanremo Festival in 1968. https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_tramontana –  Sep 10 '16 at 05:58
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From the dizionario Treccani, tramontana, meaning 2

perdere la tramontana, lo stesso che perdere la bussola, disorientarsi, confondersi, o perdere il controllo di sé.

That is in English

perdere la tramontana, the same as perdere la bussola, losing the direction or losing one's self control

In this case tramontana is employed to indicate the North, that is the direction this wind blows from.

Denis Nardin
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    That's curious because in Catalan we often say of people from Empordà that they are "tocats per la tramuntana", literally meaning that they are "touched by Tramontane", with the sense that they are suffering some kind of negative effects popularly associated to this wind which can even make them a little bit softheaded. – Charo Sep 09 '16 at 17:59
  • I disagree with "In this case tramontana is employed metaphorically to indicate the North". From the explanations and definitions I've read, it is clear that "tramontana" literally means "a northern wind" or "coming from the north". It's in the song that "tramontana" is used metaphorically. – Centaurus Sep 10 '16 at 15:57
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    @Centaurus - the saying "*perdere la tramontana*" existed well before the song was written. –  Sep 10 '16 at 18:40
  • @Centaurus: It's a metaphoric use in the sense that it's not referring to geographic north. – Charo Sep 10 '16 at 19:14
  • @Centaurus Ok I expressed myself slightly imprecisely. It is a metonymy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy), mentioning the wind to mean the direction it blows from, similar to lend me the ear, where you do not physically detach the ear to give it to the speaker. Here you do not "lose" the wind (whatever that would mean), but its direction. – Denis Nardin Sep 10 '16 at 22:01
  • And in fact, there is also a metaphor on top of that, as Charo says, where you say I lost the North to mean I lost control of myself. – Denis Nardin Sep 10 '16 at 22:23
  • I think you guys misunderstood my comment. I said that when "la tramontana" refers to "a nothern wind" it's the literal meaning of the word. Then again, in the phrase "perdere la tramontana" tramontana is used metaphorically. @xxxxxx no matter whether the expression antedates the song or not. – Centaurus Sep 11 '16 at 00:33
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    @Centaurus I think I don't understand you. Are you saying that a northern wind and the direction North are literally the same thing? I am not saying I am right, but I honestly do not understand your objections. If you could clear it maybe I can improve this answer to your satisfaction. To restate my position: tramontana is a name for the direction North, and I consider this usage a metonymy, in the same way you could say that someone is "coming from the sunrise" to mean that s/he comes from the east. – Denis Nardin Sep 11 '16 at 01:25
  • @DenisNardin Please read my last comment again. It all about "literal" versus "metaphorical". "Tramontana" the northern wind, is the literal meaning of the word. "Perdere la Tramontana", contrary to what your answer says, is the metaphorical use. – Centaurus Sep 11 '16 at 01:36
  • @Centaurus I agree that the wind is the literal meaning of the word. The word also (metaphorically) means the direction North. I think that's what I am saying in the answer and I do not understand what are you disagreeing with – Denis Nardin Sep 11 '16 at 02:49
  • I'm saying that the only metaphorical meaning is the idiomatic phrase "perdere la tramontana". Both the wind and the north direction are literal meanings. – Centaurus Sep 11 '16 at 02:53
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    I think we will have to agree to disagree on that (with the aforementioned caveat that it is more precisely a metonymy rather then a metaphor) – Denis Nardin Sep 11 '16 at 02:59
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    I am going to remove the offending word metaphorically but I consider the second meaning (the North direction) a derived meaning. Also I consider extremely pointless to spend time discussing what literal meaning exactly means, so I'm not going to take part to this discussion, which is bloated and unduly long anyway. – Denis Nardin Sep 11 '16 at 10:47
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Nel contesto della frase perdere la Tramontana significa (come modo di dire) perdere la testa.

In English:

  • lose your head

  • out of mind

momomorez
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