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Some Bible versions say that there are three witnesses in heaven and that is The Father, The Son and The Spirit.

1 John 5:7-8

there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One

While others talk about the witnesses being the blood, the water and the spirit.

1 John 5:7-8

For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree

Should Christians believe the versions that read similar to the second one because of what happened during the crucifixion. Jesus' left rib was pierced then blood and water proceeded forth from the wound.

John 19:34

But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water.

curiousdannii
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Dong Li
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  • It is agreed by many that the 'Johannine Comma' should not be included in scripture. The very wording linking 'Father' and 'Word' is quite clearly inappropriate. Erasmus was prevailed upon to include it only due to a Latin (not Greek) manuscript being located. – Nigel J Mar 24 '24 at 22:31
  • @NigelJ, did Erasmus erroneously introduce that part or is it because a Latin version containing that text existed already? – Dong Li Mar 25 '24 at 01:52
  • @NigelJ, I invited you to a private Bible discussion chat on Google Chat, hopefully you will accept it, Thanks and may God bless you. – Dong Li Mar 25 '24 at 01:57
  • @NigelJ, if you google search 'Google Chat' , it will open a chat window with the message I just sent. – Dong Li Mar 25 '24 at 01:59
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    @MikeBorden, Thanks for the link, so it was one verse , some versions have both verses? There are three that bear witness in heaven and three that bear witness on earth – Dong Li Mar 25 '24 at 13:12
  • I believe that is correct. The heavenly record of v. 7 is the disputed phrase and not the earthly witness of verse 8. – Mike Borden Mar 25 '24 at 14:45
  • @MikeBorden, Thanks and what did Erasmus do? Did he do it intentionally? – Dong Li Mar 25 '24 at 14:55
  • You would have to ask him :) While the verse is suspect, the Trinitarian theology it represents is not. Nevertheless, it is best to label it as suspect, at best. IMHO. – Mike Borden Mar 25 '24 at 15:06
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    Catholic opinion was in favour of including the 'comma'. Erasmus had no Greek manuscript containing the wording but then he was somewhhat restricted in his access to all the relevant data. Catholic opinion desired the 'Trinitarian support' (despite that the linking of 'Father' and 'Word' is unscriptural and not logical). A Latin manuscript was dug up and Erasmus gave in and included the comma. One can understand both his misgivings and his reluctance to be at variance. They were difficult times. – Nigel J Mar 25 '24 at 16:01
  • @NigelJ, but if he accepted his mistake and repented then it's not a big deal. A latin manuscript was dug up and he gave Erasmus gave in and included the comma, the truth has a way of coming out – Dong Li Mar 25 '24 at 18:14
  • It's interesting that you say the left side. (I personally favour that idea, as it would make sense that the blood and water came from the spleen and stomach, both of which are on the left side of the body.) But most artwork shows it on the right side. Do you have a specific reason for saying the left side? – Ray Butterworth Mar 26 '24 at 02:25
  • Does this answer of mine answer your Q: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/49495/in-1-john-58-is-the-reference-to-spirit-water-and-blood-an-allusion-to-jesus/86997#86997 – Olde English Mar 26 '24 at 15:14

1 Answers1

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Is there any way to know which Bible version is correct about 1 John 5:7-8?

Short Answer: The absence of the Comma Johanneum in the vast majority of Greek manuscripts, including important ones like Codex Sinaiticus [1], suggests that it was likely a later addition.

the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity. [2]

The phrase "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit" in 1 John 5:7 is known as the Comma Johanneum, and it is found in a few late manuscripts.

However, the Comma Johanneum is not found in the majority of Greek manuscripts, including many of the earliest and most reliable ones.

GotQuestions says:

  • However, it is highly unlikely that the Comma Johanneum was originally a part of 1 John. None of the oldest Greek manuscripts of 1 John contain the comma, and none of the very early church fathers include it when quoting or referencing 1 John 5:7-8. The presence of the Comma Johanneum in Greek manuscripts is actually quite rare until the 15th century A.D. It is primarily found in Latin manuscripts. While some of the Latin manuscripts containing the Comma Johanneum are ancient, the Comma Johanneum did not appear in the original Latin Vulgate written by Jerome.

Bible.org says:

  • This longer reading is found only in eight late manuscripts, four of which have the words in a marginal note. Most of these manuscripts (2318, 221, and [with minor variations] 61, 88, 429, 629, 636, and 918) originate from the 16th century; the earliest manuscript, codex 221 (10th century), includes the reading in a marginal note which was added sometime after the original composition. Thus, there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek manuscript until the 1500s; each such reading was apparently composed after Erasmus’ Greek NT was published in 1516. Indeed, the reading appears in no Greek witness of any kind (either manuscript, patristic, or Greek translation of some other version) until AD 1215 (in a Greek translation of the Acts of the Lateran Council, a work originally written in Latin).
Jason_
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    1. Good explicit answer. My own answer to a similar Q., I believe is in concurrence: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/49495/in-1-john-58-is-the-reference-to-spirit-water-and-blood-an-allusion-to-jesus/86997#86997
  • – Olde English Mar 26 '24 at 15:27
  • Ok, I see the acknowledgement for my comment, which came along with an upvote, but you have not seen fit to reciprocate in respect of my concurring answer to a similar Q. Did you even check out my linked answer?? – Olde English Mar 28 '24 at 00:53
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    @OldeEnglish I have read it now and agree! Apologies, no disrespect intended. I have left an upvote! – Jason_ Mar 28 '24 at 01:32