Isaiah 45:11
Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
How can the created command the maker?
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3Does this answer your question? "Command ye Me"...What is the proper context and interpretation for Isaiah 45:11? – Jason_ Mar 22 '24 at 00:38
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@Jason How many times will you ask if this 8 year old question and answers , answer my question. I have said no repeatedly. No means no. – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 19:48
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I personally have only asked this once... Genuine apologies if I missed someone else already asking! There is some good information there so I think it is worth bringing to attention to any future readers. – Jason_ Mar 23 '24 at 21:42
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1@ Jason Thank you for clearing that up. My apologies. Now maybe someone else will have the honesty to do the same, but hopefully not before they read all my comments on this question to Anne. The annoying pop-up kept instructing me to edit my question, which was was so simple and to the point I felt any editing would have confused the question. The answers from 8 years ago were what I felt missed the point and the question itself was a little confusing to me. I still am not clear on how some of these rules are applied. – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 22:02
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Let me start with a quotation:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
- The Lord not only allows his people to put him in remembrance of his promises and prophecies, but to plead for, and, as it were, require the performance of them; and so the words are an encouragement to the importunate prayer of faith. Faith in prayer has great power with God, a kind of command over him; it holds him to his word; it will not let him go without the blessing; nor let him alone till he has made good his promise; nor give him any rest, day nor night, till he has fulfilled the things to come concerning his sons.
First, it’s important to note that this passage is part of the larger narrative in which God speaks through the Prophet Isaiah. In Isaiah 45:1, God speaks to the Persian King, Cyrus, who has been chosen by God to allow and help the Jews return to Jerusalem.
When God says, “command ye me,” he doesn’t mean that humans have authority over him in the sense that they can order him around. It’s a statement of God’s willingness to listen to our prayers and petitions. It shows that God is open to dialogue and interacts with humanity. In other words, God invites us to come to Him with our concerns, questions and requests.
Conclusion: God is sovereign and in control, but He invites us to approach Him with our prayers and to bring our needs to Him.
Jason_
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- 1 -- Small suggestion: God inspired Cyrus to allow and help the Jews return to Jerusalem but not the lead them there.
– Dan Fefferman Mar 22 '24 at 00:57 -
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@Jason Does Amos 3:7 speak toward God's desire for us to ask him about things to come as well? – RHPclass79 Mar 22 '24 at 03:56
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@RHPclass79 I would say that Amos 3:7 tells us that God always reveals His hidden plans before acting in history, letting us know the end from the beginning. The Scriptures, whether from the Old or New Testament, are filled with prophetic voices that foretell upcoming events.
Quote - The good news is that God does not want us to be in the dark. Amos tells us that He has chosen to reveal Himself to us, including His plans.
God wants to have a relationship with us. He wants us to know His ways. So He guides us, telling us everything we need to know.
– Jason_ Mar 22 '24 at 04:19 -
@Jason Agreed. I also think it establishes a MO ( method of operation ) . God declares he alone can tell or reveal the beginning from the end. This could be key in understanding Isaiah 45:11. Things to consider. – RHPclass79 Mar 22 '24 at 04:30
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Note that the chapter begins with the LORD addressing Cyrus and that the OP's verse is preceded by the following:
Woe to anyone who contends with their Maker; a potsherd among potsherds of the earth! Shall the clay say to the potter, “What are you doing?” (vs 9)
Translators have dealt with vs. 11 in basically two ways. The KJV - quoted in the OP - renders it as an instruction from God to Cyrus in which Cyrus is told to command God.
The NABRE typifies those translations that turn it into a question:
Thus says the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, his maker: Do you question me about my children, tell me how to treat the work of my hands?
Since there are no punctuation marks in the original, this cannot be said to be taking liberties with the text, especially given the curse on those who challenge God in vs. 9.
Conclusion: It is probable that the verse is not meant to instruct Cyrus to command God. Rather the passage should be understood to be either a sarcastic statement by God, or - probably better - a rhetorical question.
ADDENDUM: A fascinating alternative reading of the Deity's relationship with Cyrus was preserved by Cyrus himself in a cylinder discovered in the 19th century. Here, it is Marduk, the supreme deity of the Babylonian religion, who instructs Cyrus. Moreover, the king does not show particular favor to the Jews, but returns all of the "gods" to their proper temples.
Upon the command of Marduk, the great Lord, I resettled all the gods of Sumer and Akkad unharmed, in their (former) chapels... May all the gods whom I have resettled in their sacred cities ask Bel and Nebo (see Isaiah 46:1) for a long life for me and may they recommend me. To Marduk, my lord, they may say this: “Cyrus, the king who worships you, and Cambyses, his son…” … (six lines destroyed)
Dan Fefferman
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Given the context of that section of Isaiah, the answer is clearly, "It is not possible for anyone to command Jehovah God!"
Consider all the rhetorical questions God indignantly puts to foolish vessels of clay. Would they dare try to instruct the Potter who formed them? - vs. 9. Woe to him striving with his Maker!
Would they have the temerity to question their father as to their being begotten? - vs. 10. Woe to such a son!
Would they have the audacity to ask a mother / a wife what they had birthed? - vs. 10. Who to such a man!
Then comes the verse in question, and the theme continues, but now God challenges "his Servant" (Israel on one hand, and king Cyrus on the other) to see if they dare challenge him, their Maker, so as to give commands to him.
This is proven by the verses following, where God details his powers of creation, repeating what he said in verses 3 & 6, that he is Jehovah God, and there is no other god apart from him. God's indignant rage against impudent men stops after verse 14. Then Isaiah, suitably awed, states the shame of those (like Israel and Cyrus) who have gone after other gods. The section shows that Cyrus did not know that Jehovah was using him to bring down Babylon (which held Israel captive) and that it was Jehovah who opened the gates to let the army of Cyrus flood in so as to destroy Babylon literally over-night (see verses 1-5).
There are significant similarities with what God says here, and what he said to Job (the closing chapters of that book.) Just a few moments contemplating the awesome power, authority and godhood of the Creator should silence all mortals, causing them to bend their knee before him. I have gone into detail about that in my recent answer to this question, quoting from a book that shows why God questioned Job the way he did - this section in Isaiah follows the same format - to silence those who would question God, showing they have no command over him. What covenant did God make with leviathan? Job41:4
Anne
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@ Anne Since you linked the Leviathan question to this one I will address it first. God makes it clear that as invincible as Leviathan is God can put a leash on him at any time. God can make him perform for maidens amusement. The omnipotence of God is established in the Job Ch.'s 38-40. So now the question arises why did God even mention a covenant with Leviathan. Job 41:33-34 declares Leviathan is feared by all on earth, he beholdeth all high things, and he is king over all the children of pride. This sounds like much more than a sea monster, doesn't it. TBC – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 20:44
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Now let us discuss covenants. If God can and has made covenants with man since the Garden of Eden going forward to the New Covenant in Christ, who and why would anyone try and put God in a box and suppose He didn't make a covenant with Leviathan. Since we are supposing, and from the etomolgy of the word Leviathan, a description of a sea monster or dragon is given, why is it so hard.TBC – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 20:52
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Why is it impossible to envision this Leviathan as Satan? Why did God not destroy Satan or imprison him when he first rebelled. Obviously, God in his sovereign wisdom has a use or purpose for this and all he does. Why was this not treated as a simple question based on the verse presented? – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 21:10
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In regard to the Isaiah 45:11 question the verse stands by itself. God wants us to ask him of things to come (prophecy) concerning Israel who God declares himself as Maker. The testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy and the whole volume of the book speaks of Jesus. God wants us to inquire of all that is in the Bible that speaks of the works of his hands. He gives us permission and it his his desire. The word 'command' seems to portray something too strong in our English. Strong's gives a few other synonyms. In essence God is saying He alone proclaims the end from the beg. – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 21:33
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@ Anne One last thought. Isaiah was written approx. 200 years before Cyrus was born and ruled. I doubt that prior to God's use of Cyrus that he was reading the book of Isaiah a Hebrew manuscript. None of these things were addressed in the question 8 years ago. So I could honestly say this previous question did NOT answer my question. I hope whoever has been responsible for the continued harassment of this pop-up reads all this. Editing my simple question was not an option. – RHPclass79 Mar 23 '24 at 21:45
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@RHPclass79 Noted, but just to say that comments are not for either an OP or an answerer to justify their stance. That's why I won't respond, but don't take it personally as I do likewise all over the place here! – Anne Mar 24 '24 at 08:22