1

Romans 9:22 ASV

What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:

1 Timothy 2:4 ASV

who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth

agarza
  • 4,297
  • 6
  • 15
  • 32
Alex Balilo
  • 3,447
  • 10
  • 24
  • 1
    God sees time differently than humans see time. – Perry Webb Mar 06 '24 at 10:40
  • 2
    @Dottard. But this question "Does 2 Timothy 2:13 mean that a once saved person cannot lose his salvation?" is not assuming a point of view? Is the word predestination not in the bible? – Alex Balilo Mar 06 '24 at 11:56
  • 1
    I am voting to close the question as it is merely juxtaposing two texts and attempting to find contradiction. Poorly researched and not a genuine attempt to open up the text of scripture. The site archives of both SE-BH and SE-C contain many questions and answers which cover this exact subject. – Nigel J Mar 06 '24 at 14:54
  • 1
    @NigelJ. Why don't you make clear your allegations and reconcile these in an answer. – Alex Balilo Mar 06 '24 at 15:48
  • @PerryWebb.if "God sees time differently than humans see time" Does God communicate to us in ways we understand? Would God be a good communicator if He doesn't make known clearly the message of His commutation.? – Alex Balilo Mar 06 '24 at 15:58

2 Answers2

3

1 Timothy 1-2 ESV

"First of all, then, I urge that supplication, prayers, intersessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way." My emphasis.

In 1 Tim 1-2 is "all people/panton anthropon".

The implication is that prayers should be offered not just for ordinary people but "for kings and all who are in high positions".

If in v 1 & 2 "all people" literally meant "all people" then there would be no need to mention kings and others as these particular catagories would be included in "all people". The implication is that "all people" means "all types of people".

If that is so then when we come to verse 4 maybe the meaning is still all types of people. ie: the context of v4 is v1 & 2.

The word "all" in v6 can be all people, without necessarily all being given faith to receive the benefit of the ransom paid on their behalf.

In Interlinear Greek-English N.T. 3rd Edition Jay P. Green Editor. Baker Books is the following suggestion for v4:

"who all [sorts] of men desires to be saved."

For these reasons it seems logical that if God desires to save people of all sorts or types , even kings, then He does not necessarily desire to save everyone. And so there is no logical conflict in God fitting some for destruction.

C. Stroud
  • 9,819
  • 5
  • 26
  • 85
0

God has clearly communicated to us His will concerning all men in 1 Timothy 2:4

God, our savior, Who wills all mankind to be saved, and to come into a realization of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator, also between God and mankind, amen, Christ Jesus, who is giving himself a correspond ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras)

A few verses earlier, it says,

faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome, that Christ Jesus came in the world to save sinners, foremost of whom I am. 1 Timothy 1:15

Since this is God's will, then we are praying accordingly for all mankind, that even includes kings and those who are in authority so that we can live a mild and quiet life.

That means that our hearts are praying for those who might be oppressing us, it keeps our hearts from getting angry and bitter towards them, and keeps the attitude of God in our hearts towards all mankind which in this era is one of conciliation.

So how does that align with these vessels that are adapted for destruction?

Now, if God, wanting to display His indignation, and to make His power known, carries on, with much patience, the vessels of indignation adapted for destruction, it is that he should also make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy...

First of all, you have to read the whole context of who Paul is talking about here. This has to do with the nations and especially Israel at this particular point in time. Jesus Christ had came onto his own people who totally rejected Him and crucified him. They were given another chance to have the kingdom come in if the whole nation repented and accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah. God had shown much patience towards them. They did not and so now God has adapted ( made suitable for a new use or purpose) them for destruction instead of salvation. We know the history what happened in 70 A.D. and since the nation, as a whole has been deemed no longer His people. Of course, right after that, we see the quote from Hosea in 25:23. It is that concerned with Israel.

God, in His sovereign mercy, will reverse the sentence which He pronounced against them. In the very same place in which they were named "Lo-ammi", there they shall be called sons of the living God. Concordant commentary.

Sherrie
  • 3,492
  • 1
  • 4
  • 11