Who is "Lord" in 2 Cor 3:18

Question

2 Cor 3:18 (BLB) - And we all having been unveiled in face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the Spirit.

2 Cor 3:18 (ESV) - And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

In the NT the title "Lord" usually (but certainly not always) refers to Jesus Christ. Occasionally, "Lord" refers to the Father but by far the most common refers to Jesus.

In John 4:24 Jesus says that "God is "spirit".

QUESTION: In 2 Cor 3:18, to whom does the title "Lord" refer (see also V17):

Jesus?
The Holy Spirit
The Father only?
Two or more of these together
Something else?

I prefer a grammatical answer to this question from the immediate context.

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — Steve can help, Oct 14 '22 at 08:53
"Occasionally, Lord refers to the Father." Can you state where that is? — Revelation Lad, Oct 17 '22 at 21:49
@RevelationLad Mark 12:29, Luke 1:68, Rev 11:17, 15:3, Luke 10:21, 20:37, Matt 11:25, 2 Cor 6:18, etc. — Dottard, Oct 17 '22 at 22:26

Sherrie · Answer 1 · 2022-10-13T17:32:55.187

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OP,s QUESTION: In 2 Cor 3:18, to whom does the title "Lord" refer (see also V17):

Jesus?
God generally?
The Holy Spirit
The Father only?
Something else?

Now the Lord is the Spirit; yet where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Now we all, with uncovered face, viewing the Lord's glory as in a mirror, are transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit. 2 Co. 3:17,18

First of all Christ Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

the Son of His love, ..,,,

Who is the image of the invisible God, . 1:13-15

That being said when it talks about looking into a mirror I think it might be looking at the face of Jesus Christ, the glory of God.

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 4:5-6

When one has been placed in Christ, then He alone can reveal the Father in truth to one. All that the Son has comes from the Father including God's Spirit.

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26

The term Lord means ownership. One having power and authority over others:

2962 kýrios – properly, a person exercising absolute ownership rights; lord (Lord). [In the papyri, 2962 (kýrios) likewise denotes an owner (master) exercising full rights.]

The Spirit then is Lord over all.

God is the source of all.

All is out of Him.. Romans 11:36

In light of some of the things that were just mentioned I would vote that since God is Spirit, He is also the ultimate Lord that owns everything, that His Invisible essence is Spirit has taken on the title "Lord the Spirit. To sum everything under one heading I would vote God.

New edit:

I am changing my answer because after looking at chapter 3 again and 4 again it makes it clearer that it is Christ Jesus the Lord who is spoken about in 2 Co. 3:17.

For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, . 2 Corinthians 4:4

Earlier in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians it is written the last Adam became a life giving Spirit.

the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 1 Co. 15:45

So to recap:

Now we all, with uncovered face, viewing the Lord's glory as in a mirror, are transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18

It is Christ Jesus who we look up on. It is because of His faith alone and obedience to the Father that His many glories come to light as we look upon Him. His glory does not fade like the glory on Moses face that he had from Mount Sinai. See Exodus 34:28--35

OP's Question In 2 Cor 3:18, to whom does the title "Lord" refer (see also V17):

I now say it is Christ Jesus.

edited Oct 13 '22 at 17:32

answered Oct 11 '22 at 23:10

Sherrie

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transformed into the same image would suggest it is not referring to God but Jesus who is the image. – Steve Oct 13 '22 at 01:34
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@ steveowen Thank you so much for your comment as it helped me to see more clearly who the Lord is in this verse! Because of that I changed my answer after the edit. – Sherrie Oct 13 '22 at 17:36
@Sherrie. I believe your original answer was correct. Review 2 Corinthians 3:16-18. The Lord in these verses is God/Jehovah as the Aramaic Bible shows. 2 Corinthians 3:17 is similar to John 4:24. Whose image are we, (1 Corinthians 11:7), and Jesus made? – Alex Balilo Oct 13 '22 at 22:22
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Alex, appreciate your comments and would have to do more research on God/Jehovah. All that Christ has comes from God the Father. If one is in union with the resurrected Christ, then Christ's reveals the true God and Father now that one has been made alive in the spirit. One grows looking at Christ, from glory to glory. Christ is their new identity as to who they are in Him and God the Father. Worship in the spirit to God the Father is revealed through the Son's life, since He is the truth and the life giving Spirit He received from God the Father and now given to those in Him. – Sherrie Oct 14 '22 at 04:41
@Sherrie. The source of all life is Jesus' God. Jesus pointed to God as the source of his life. John 6:57. The immediate context of the verse in question refers to Exodus 34:34 . Christians reflect the image of their Creator, Colossians 3:10, 1 Corinthians 11:7. – Alex Balilo Oct 14 '22 at 13:31
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Alex, I totally agree with everything you just said so I don't understand where we disagree? – Sherrie Oct 14 '22 at 20:23
@Sherrie. Thank you for for your response. We disagreed with the last paragraph of your answer as the answer to this question. My answer points to why I think it is not Jesus. You can downvote mine if you think it is incorrect. – Alex Balilo Oct 14 '22 at 22:20
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Alex, thanks for clarifying that. Just because we see things differently does not merit a down vote. – Sherrie Oct 15 '22 at 01:23
@AlexBalilo Christians reflect the image of their Creator, is not accurate. We are only in God’s image in Christ, not on our own Rom 8:29. Jesus is the primary image referenced in the op passage. – Steve Oct 17 '22 at 20:48
@AlexBalilo Read what the Apostle John stated at John 1:4. Jesus had life in Himself BEFORE His incarnation. This power was given back to Him AFTER His resurrection, after He had accomplished His mission as a man. "In Him was life, (past tense), and the life was the light of men. 1 John 1:1-2, Jesus is identified as the "Word of Life--vs2, and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the ETERNAL life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us." John 10:28, "I give eternal life to them/His sheep and they shall never perish etc. See John 10:30. – Mr. Bond Oct 17 '22 at 21:07
@Mr.Bond. Jesus cannot be the faithful and true witness if what he says is not true. He said he was the first creation by God., He said he was begotten. He lives because of the Father, John 6 :57. He pointed to God as the source of his life. – Alex Balilo Oct 17 '22 at 21:18
@steveowen. "In The Expositor’s Bible Commentary, 1976, (Vol. 10) Murray J. Harris makes this comment in a note on 2 Corinthians 3:17a: “In Pauline [Paul’s] usage ὁ Κύριος (ho Kyrios) generally means ‘Christ,’ and Κύριος (Kyrios) signifies Yahweh. In this verse ὁ κύριος refers to Yahweh, for the article is anaphoric, pointing back to the anarthrous κύριοv (kyrion = Yahweh) in v.16.” – Alex Balilo Oct 17 '22 at 21:34
@AlexBalilo Where did Jesus say He was the first creation by God? If your referencing Revelation 3:14 that is not what the verse is teaching. Secondly, you referenced John 6:57' It says, "As the living Father sent Me. John 6:38 confirms this where it says, For I have come down from heaven not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. Since Jesus was SENT from heaven He had to have preexisted. And John 3:13, "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." Begotten in Scripture has two meanings, look up the Greek word "monogenes." What does it mean? – Mr. Bond Oct 17 '22 at 22:47
@Mr.Bond. If you have a different understanding of the word "begotten" and Revelation 3:14, you can always post a question regarding those. Anyways, The apostles and their forefathers never viewed Jesus as their only true God as Acts 3:13 shows. – Alex Balilo Oct 17 '22 at 22:54
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@Mr.Bond the incarnation is an imaginary device used to avoid the Biblical truth. Everything after that is therefore false. Please stick to the facts God provided. – Steve Oct 17 '22 at 23:44

Read Less Pray More · Answer 2 · 2022-10-14T12:34:26.717

In the context of this chapter, the Lord is the Risen Son.

Paul's Christology is quite clear. He is a monotheist and believes in 1 God and Father above all, and 1 Lord (Teacher,Master) and Mediator, the Risen Son Jesus Christ.

Eph 4:4

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

From Paul's introduction from the same Epistle in question:

2Cor 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

From the preceding context of the same chapter in question, we can understand that Paul is using the word Lord when speaking of the Risen Son.

2Cor 3:14

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

and then 2 verses later....

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Our Lord, master and teacher,is the Risen Son. He is that Spirit because he is perfectly sharing the same Spirit consciousness as his Father whose Spirit is the 1 Eternal Spirit Paul refers to. 1 Spirit of our 1 God, YHWH.

Jesus is in his Father. This means our Father is perfectly sharing His consciousness with His begotten Son.

And finally we come to the verse in question:

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

To conclude, The Spirit of Christ is the same Spirit of God the Father. They share the same consciousness that proceeds from the Father, comes through (dia) the Risen Son, the Vine to the branches - who are the rest of the chidren of YHWH. In this way we are all One in Spirit, the consciousness of the Father.

In the context of this chapter, the Lord in question is the Risen Son, Jesus Christ.

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — Steve can help, Oct 14 '22 at 08:53

Alex Balilo · Answer 3 · 2022-10-17T22:48:51.040

QUESTION: In 2 Cor 3:18, to whom does the title "Lord" refer (see also V17):

Jesus? God generally? The Holy Spirit The Father only? Something else?

The easiest answer to this question is found in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. The Lord in 2 Corinthians 3:18 is God/Jehovah.

2 Corinthians 3:18 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

But we all see the glory of THE LORD JEHOVAH with unveiled faces, as in a mirror, and we are changed into the image from glory to glory, as from THE LORD JEHOVAH, THE SPIRIT.

Is there anything in this verse that indicates it is holy spirit or Jesus?

Christians reflect God's qualities, Colossians 3:10.

Colossians 3:10 American Standard Version

and have put on the new man, that is being renewed unto knowledge after the image of him that created him:

The Lord in 2 Corinthians 3:17 is also God. This verse is similar to John 4:24. 2 Corinthians 3:16 is also an allusion to Exodus 34:34. Thus, the context and the allusion Old Testament of 2 Corinthians 3:17 support God/YHWH is the Lord in 2 Corinthians 3:18 There is nothing in the verse that indicates it is holy spirit or Jesus.

Exodus 34:34 American Standard Version

But when Moses went in before Jehovah to speak with him, he took the veil off, until he came out; and he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.

The Aramaic in Plain English identifies who the Lord is in this question.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

But The Spirit is THE LORD JEHOVAH, and wherever The Spirit of THE LORD JEHOVAH is, there is freedom.

2 Corinthians 3:18 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

But we all see the glory of THE LORD JEHOVAH with unveiled faces, as in a mirror, and we are changed into the image from glory to glory, as from THE LORD JEHOVAH, THE SPIRIT.

This question and others similar to it gives credence to what George Howard wrote about the Name of God in the New Testament. “The removal of the Tetragrammaton (Jehovah) from the New Testament and its replacement with the surrogates KYRIOS and THEOS blurred the original distinction between the Lord God and the Lord Christ, and in many passages made it impossible which one was meant. As time went on, it was often impossible to distinguish between them.... “ – George Howard, Bible Scholar ; The Name of God in the New Testament, BAR 4.1 (March 1978), pg 15

ADDITIONS

In The New Interpreter’s Bible Commentary, 2015, (Vol. 9) J. Paul Sampley makes this comment on 2 Corinthians 3:18: “The identity of ‘Lord’ here as everywhere in Paul’s letters must be determined by context and Paul’s patterns. When Paul references Scripture, as he does in this passage with its indebtedness to Exodus 33-34, he often adopts κύριος (kyrios) as the title for God from his Greek translation of ‘Yahweh.’ (cf. Rom 9:28-29; 1 Cor 14:21). The context, from [2 Corinthians] 2:14 (where Paul gives thanks to God, who through Christ leads Paul and others), to [2 Corinthians] 3:4 (where Paul’s confidence is through Christ to God), to [2 Corinthians] 3:5 (where Paul’s confidence is from God), to the conclusion of the section in [2 Corinthians] 4:6 . . . all of these encourage the reading of ‘Lord’ in [2 Corinthians] 3:18 as referring to God.” It goes on to say: “Further, the reference in [2 Corinthians] 4:6 is unambiguously to God’s glory, so that the ‘glory of the Lord’ of [2 Corinthians] 3:18 ought to be taken also as pointing to God.”

The Anchor Bible—II Corinthians, Translated With Introduction, Notes, and Commentary, by Victor Paul Furnish, 1984, comments on the Greek expression rendered “the spirit of Jehovah” at 2 Corinthians 3:17b: “This phrase ([to] pneuma Kyriou) is frequent in the LXX [Septuagint] (e.g., Judg 3:10; 11:29; often in 1 Kgdms [1 Samuel]; 2 Kgdms [2 Samuel] 23:2; 3 Kgdms [1 Kings] 19:11, etc.) and occurs elsewhere in the NT [New Testament] in Luke 4:18 (citing Isa 61:1) and Acts 8:39 (influenced by LXX [Septuagint] 3 Kgdms [1 Kings] 18:12 and 4 Kgdms [2 Kings] 2:16). The genitive (Kyriou, ‘of the Lord’) indicates origin and belonging, and it is clear that Lord and Spirit are not equated . . . ; thus, ‘the Lord’s Spirit.’ . . . Both the LXX [Septuagint] background of the phrase and its context here in chap. 3 support the view that Paul is thinking of the Spirit of God.” In all the scriptures mentioned above, the divine name is used in the original Hebrew text.

... and do you also agree with the same version (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) the way it translates John 1:1, or do you pick and choose? — Dottard, Oct 14 '22 at 09:02
Still peddling these fantastic, unevidenced theories? I have just read George Howard's paper you reference and even he admits that there is no evidence for his theory (page 74) - his conclusion is based entirely on wishful thinking. — Dottard, Oct 14 '22 at 09:54
@Dottard. You can turn your comments into questions . You can also answer your own question /theory by asking yourself if the Lord is God generally. Or is it allowing for a multi person god that is a theory that is not in the bible for others to discuss.. Which name did the word Lord of the Old Testament replace? Did this Lord loose his name in the New Testament? — Alex Balilo, Oct 14 '22 at 13:08
@Dottard. If the distinction of who the Lord is in this question is clear to you, why did you asked this Q? — Alex Balilo, Oct 14 '22 at 13:38
I'm baffled by the popular use of the phrase "God generally" by several contributors on this forum. Where does this usage of words come from? — Read Less Pray More, Oct 14 '22 at 14:44
@alex glory of the Lord , we know that Jesus IS that glory. In that respect it points to Jesus. Tit 2:13 and others. — Steve, Oct 18 '22 at 04:37
@steveowen. We can agree to disagree on this one. I added some references to substantiate my answer. You can always answer the Q if you want to. I am sticking to my answer unless I read something more convincing. Thanks for your feedback. — Alex Balilo, Oct 18 '22 at 05:52

Who is "Lord" in 2 Cor 3:18

3 Answers3