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Mark 13:19 ASV

For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.

Considering Isaiah 44:24 is there another Creator?

Isaiah 44:24 ASV

Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?)

agarza
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Alex Balilo
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  • Are you asking : Does the word θεὸς in Mark 13:19 refer to The Name יְהֹוָה֙ in Yeshayahu 44:24? – חִידָה Nov 18 '21 at 15:22
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    The 'beginning of creation' which 'God' created refers to Elohim (Genesis 1:1). Isaiah 44:24 refers to Jehovah. It is not clear what point you are making or exactly what you are asking. Jesus refers to Theos creating 'in the beginning' : thus, he refers to Elohim. – Nigel J Nov 18 '21 at 16:31
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    We're told in the Bible that "God is not the author of confusion". If God (the Father) did the planning, but then handed it over to Jesus to do the "actual work", we end up with never ending confusion about who the actual Creator is. Some say God alone, others say God and Jesus were "co-creators". Others say Jesus was the "master craftsman" in Proverbs 8:30, but if God supposedly "planned it all", doesn't that make God, not Jesus, the master craftsman? And if it's Jesus speaking in Isaiah 44:24, doing the creating all alone, isn't that an insult to his Father? Utter confusion. – moron Nov 19 '21 at 10:17
  • @Nigel. Granting that it is as you said "thus, he refers to Elohim" Are you implying that God is plural? The definition of Elohim supplied by the Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Inter Varsity Press, 1980) 571, contradicts the notion that God is"three Persons" "Though a plural form, elohim can be treated as a singular, in which case it means the one supreme Deity... There is only one supreme God and He is a Person. Your comment seems to make my question unclear so you can close it. I simply am asking to whom did Jesus ascribed creation and is there another Creator? What part of my Q is unclear? – Alex Balilo Nov 19 '21 at 12:04

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The OT declares that Jehovah is the One and only creator and God:

  • Isa 44:24 - Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth
  • Isa 45:18 - For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens—He is God; He formed the earth and fashioned it; He established it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am the LORD, and there is no other.
  • Isa 45:21, 22 - Speak up and present your case— yes, let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago? Who announced it from ancient times? Was it not I, the LORD? There is no other God but Me, a righteous God and Savior; there is none but Me.Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

Thus, YHWH/Jehovah is the name of God Almighty - the ONLY creator of heaven and earth.

  • Ps 33:6, 9 - By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all the stars by the breath of His mouth.

Compare this to Gen 1:1, 3

  • In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ... And God said, ...

We see that YHWH/Jehovah is God in many other places as well such as:

  • Deut 4:35 - You were shown these things so that you would know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides Him.
  • Deut 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
  • Deut 32:39 - See now that I [YHWH, V36ff] am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
  • Isa 44:6 - Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me.
  • Isa 45:5, 6 - I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me, so that all may know, from where the sun rises to where it sets, that there is none but Me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Thus, the OT appears to use the names, "God" and YHWH/Jehovah almost interchangeably - two names/titles for the same person. Thus, Mark 13:19 refers to the one and only creator God - YHWH/Jehovah.

Dottard
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God the Father is the ultimate creator, but both John and Paul indicate that it was the pre-incarnate Jesus that performed the actual work of creation:

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. — John 1:3

For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things … — Hebrews 2:10

… the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ — Ephesians 3:9

When Jesus says that "God created" in Mark 13:19, he is of course referring to the Father. Generally it is the architect that gets the credit for designing a building, not the engineers for constructing it.

Isaiah 44:24 refers to YHWH as the one "who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth"

That is, it was YHWH that performed the creative work that John and Paul attribute to Jesus.

But there is no contradiction here, because before his incarnation as a human being, Jesus was YHWH, Jesus was the God of the Hebrew scriptures. Until the human Jesus revealed the existence of the Father, the world had no idea of his existence:

… Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. — Matthew 11:27

O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them. — John 17:25–26

For more details, see my answer to contradiction - How can John 1:18 say that "No man has seen God" when the Bible says that Abraham, Moses, Job and others have?

Ray Butterworth
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    You are reading in Jesus where he does not belong. "through Him" is not Jesus - it is the logos as John writes. Not to mention the biased translation of Eph which the Greek has none of "through Jesus Christ "! – Steve Nov 19 '21 at 04:05
  • @steveowen, the vast majority of Christian denominations (effectively all except unitiarians, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses) believe that the logos was the same being as the pre-incarnate Jesus. – Ray Butterworth Nov 19 '21 at 04:12
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    Yes, but that is not what God delivered and explained very consistently. It's quite unequivocal, yet ignored by most - go figure. If God is not (obviously) behind such understanding, who is? – Steve Nov 19 '21 at 04:16
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    @Ray Butterworth. If as your answer say that "it was the pre-incarnate Jesus that performed the actual work of creation" why is it that it was God, not Jesus, who rested at creation, Hebrews 4:4? Genesis 2:2-3 also say that it was God that performed the work of creation and not Jesus. Could that be why Jesus ascribed creation to God and not himself? – Alex Balilo Nov 19 '21 at 05:00
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    Actually, "through him" does refer to Jesus, but not in the way that (very) many want to believe. It does not mean that God "thought it all out" first, then handed it over to Jesus to do the "actual work". The Greek work translated " through" means "the channel of an act", but again, that does not make Jesus the actual Creator, or co-Creator, or even "apprentice Creator", or whatever people imagine it means. In essence it means "for Jesus", or "by reason of Jesus", or "for the sake of Jesus, or "with Jesus in mind". God (the Father) did not need His son to do His own work for Him". – moron Nov 19 '21 at 09:31
  • @AlexBalilo, the God that rested at creation was Jesus. "God" is a name or title that belongs to both the Father and the Son. – Ray Butterworth Nov 19 '21 at 13:43
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    @Ray so when Jesus says he has a God, repeatedly, he is lying, being disingenuous, deceptive??? God does not have a God. Besides, Jesus wasn’t born yet! The refusal to read what is written is quite amazing. – Steve Nov 19 '21 at 22:03