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I have been reading the New Testament in more depth for the last 3 years and am seeing a lot of discrepancies in the texts. I am feeling a bit deceived that all these years I have been told lies. Hoping my questions will get thoughtful and truthful answers from believers who can help me overcome these doubts I have been having about Christianity. Hope this forum can help restore my faith.

Verse
Matthew 1:16

and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Issues I see
• Since Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit and not Joseph is Jesus from the line of David?
• God was clear with Abraham about Isaac that a mighty nation will emerge from him.
• God was clear that David’s throne through Solomon will rule Israel for ever.
• The biological father decides which tribe the son belongs to.
• Technically this would be genealogy of Joseph not Jesus?

What Christian Pastors Teach
• Jesus was adopted by Joseph.
• Joseph was the earthly father of Jesus

Hold To The Rod
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Yeddu
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  • Hi Yeddu Prasad, welcome! A bit sad to see your faith is being this shaked by something you're not understanding / seeing at the moment (as in relying on your own limited understanding - Proverbs 3:5-6)... Allow me to share a link to that same question but in a different community in hopes that helps calming the storms going in your heart. – Tiago Martins Peres May 01 '21 at 14:00
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    Dear Tiago, Thank you for your reply and I have read every message in the discussion group. No lineage is done through the mother. Nothing there seems right.

    Yes, I have believed in Christianity for 48 years. Always beleived that Jesus is the Son of God and there is no salvation except through his blood.

    For the last 3 years, I have been reading the New Testament and Tanak and have found over 100 issues so far in just the 3 gospels.

    How can so many issues be there and all I can see around me is people going through agonizing pains to right things

    Truth is simple & not complicated

    – Yeddu May 01 '21 at 14:29
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    @YedduPrasad What about Luke's geneology through Mary/Miriam? Also, I would say that truth is nearly always complicated, as the world is complicated. Whole books are made to describe truths about love, racism, history, etc. If it was all so simple, why would God's Word need to be longer than most of those books? – trlkly May 02 '21 at 06:12
  • The Father always decides the tribe. Mother decides if a person is a jew(Israelite) or not.

    Truth is always simple...We just make it complicated.

    Also when we start a lie and are stubborn not to accept that we lied, all we are left with is a whole lot of theories, suppositions, fallacies, theories, assumptions, doctrines.

    We finally come to a stage when we look back and wonder what is the truth. Was it all worth it

    I somehow believe that my life has been so blessed since I started being bold to speak the truth even if meant punishment, loss...

    God Bless

    – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 06:38
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    With regard to your 100 'issues' I have studied the scripture for over fifty years now and I have never found, myself, or heard of anyone else finding, an 'issue' that was not fully resolvable by proper examination. Every single time, it is 'user' error, I have found. – Nigel J May 02 '21 at 08:38
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    God bless you Nigel. I will share my questions with you. Please try to help me as I am sincerely seeking the truth, not interpretations, theories, doctrines. Can you share your email id with me. Mine is yeddu.prasad@outlook.com – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 08:43
  • @YedduPrasad might as well ask the questions here if they follow community standards (you'd get more attention). It'll be handy if you read first this Meta post to understand how to better proceed when one has a list of questions. For reference I have such list too with over 140 atm questions just for 1 Samuel to Neemias (when stopped asking questions here temporarily due to not having the time to be searching + asking) ... God willing it'll come the time to ask the ones that are not yet existing here. – Tiago Martins Peres May 02 '21 at 11:21
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    Joseph, as you have already ascertained, was of the line of David but, indeed, he did not do the impregnating. This used to fool me, just like it has you, until I found out that Mary was also of the line of David. Mary was of the tribe of Judah. Jesus "...was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh..." Ro, 1:3 NASB. Jesus not only had a legal right, through his adoptive father Joseph but the hereditary right also through Mary, as the 'offspring,' 'seed,' and 'root' of David. – Olde English May 02 '21 at 17:33
  • Mary(Mother) does not decide the tribe of her child. Luke attempts to fix the issue by tracing the line of Mary. – Yeddu May 03 '21 at 12:13

5 Answers5

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You appear to be well researched regarding this issue. And there is a plethora of content online expounding every angle, every viewpoint. I doubt you’ll come across something ‘new’ on this forum - more likely a rehash of what you’ve already encountered - and put aside?

Nevertheless- Let’s highlight some points for consideration. You say “The biological father decides which tribe the son belongs to.”. This isn’t so in Jewish tradition. Although it’s difficult to show why the Rabbis use the maternal line, nevertheless they do. So Miriam’s genealogy is the determining factor in tribal affiliation.

You need to remember that the eligibility of Jesus for being entitled to the throne is a question for the Jews to settle. Not ‘us westerners’. Let’s look at some criteria they expect. Remember that due to the historical split, there are two distinct branches for this nation. Judah, (and Benjamin), and Israel (Northern 10 tribes).

The requirements for sitting on the throne for Judah was Davidic descendancy. No one was allowed to sit on David's throne unless he was a member of the house of David. Now the ‘key point’ here is house of David. Not bloodline.

This is crucial - because there was a curse put onto Davids bloodline. From Jeconiah. (Jeremiah 22 24-30). So Jesus couldn’t be a ‘blood’ descendant of David! That’s why Jesus couldn’t have a ‘blood’ connection to Joseph. But nevertheless had a connection to David through Joseph, as Joseph was ‘legally’ [in Jewish/Mosaic law] Jesus’s father.

So Jesus had a ‘legally accepted’ connection to the house of David through both Joseph, and Mary - and also was not ‘under’ the curse God pronounced on Jeconiah.

Now for the Northern house of Israel - to be King here, came by prophetic sanction or divine appointment. So ‘technically’ Jesus had to be eligible under two sets of requirements.

So, why or how could Jesus claim the throne of David? He was a member of the house of David apart from Jeconiah. And, He alone received divine appointment to that throne: (“The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.")

These points are for consideration. Both you and I are aware the online world abounds with experts who refute/support various interpretations regarding this issue. But here is the ‘bottom line’. The Jewish community is saturated with experts in the Old Testament. Rabbinic scholars. Absolute masters in Mosaic and Prophetical legalism. They are the ones that need to be, ( and arguably are.) satisfied with the eligibility of Jesus to the throne of David. Because the Bible is a Jewish book.

(Reference: The Genealogy of the Messiah" by Dr Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum)

Dave
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    The Mother decides if a person is a Jew or not Not. The father decides which tribe the person belongs to. Please refer to the whole book of Numbers. It is always the father that decides the tribe. Also, if you recollect the story about the daughters of Zelophehad(numbers 27:1) same issue. I agree that this is an issue for the Jews to place Jesus from a lineage point of view, but according to the New Testament, the same messiah/christ decides who goes to hell and who goes to heaven. If you don't tie the new testament to Tanak it is all good. Just not able to take the lies anymore. – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 06:09
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    Please refer to Haggai 2:23. God restores the Jeconiah curse. But since you brought up the adoption part, there is no text that an adopted son becomes a legal heir. That said, I see no need for the adoption theory other than to link it with the Tanak. Why not just believe in what the New Testament says and just not link it with the Tanak.
    1. Jesus is Son of God
    2. Jesus is God
    3. Jesus stating that David praised him and hence he is superiour to David
    4. Pauls statement that he has fulfilled to be born of Flesh
    – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 06:22
  • Are you referring to 2 Samuel 7:12 when you say (“The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.")? I believe this is referring to Solomon. In verse 13 it says he will build God a temple. – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 06:30
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    Agreed and up-voted save for one point. Mary was a close relative of Elziabeth who was 'of the daughters of Aaron'. Thus the only way that this could be possible is by Mary, also, being of Levi. Which, by the way, fulfils the prophecies (in Jesus) regarding Phinehas. – Nigel J May 02 '21 at 08:30
  • @Yeddu Prasad As I said, you seem well researched. As I said, I doubted you’d find something new. I provided this outline for consideration, so thanks for doing that. Couple of things, the Tanakh is the source that must be used for this, and using it can/does reflect eligibility - Second - you said ...”the same messiah/christ decides who goes to hell and who goes to heaven” - it’s not his decision that decides where you go. All the best in your pursuit for answers, I’m sure you’ll find what you want. – Dave May 02 '21 at 18:37
  • @Yeddu Prasad One further point - If you haven’t already referenced it, I refer you to the comment by Nigel J regarding tribal connection. – Dave May 02 '21 at 18:50
  • Dave, Christianity says that if you don't believe in Jesus is god you will go to hell. On the other hand, Tanakh says there is only one God and no trinity. That is the reason I am doing this study, not for any intellectual drive – Yeddu May 03 '21 at 12:10
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Direct Evidence
There are two explicit witnesses which state Jesus was of the line of David:

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham
(Matthew 1:1 ESV)

Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli...the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David... (Luke 3:23, 31)

Matthew, who gives the birth account from Joseph's perspective, begins by stating Jesus was the Christ and son of David and Abraham. (Note: Christ is the Greek title given to the Messiah who was to be a Davidic ruler. The title alone is sufficient evidence of ancestry.) Luke, who gives the account from Mary's perspective, traces Jesus' genealogy back to Adam through David and Abraham. Both understood Jesus to be a son of David.

Additionally, Luke points to another consideration: Mary's lineage could also connect with David's (cf. Romans 1:3). In that case, Jesus would be a descendant of David biologically through Mary and by adoption through Joseph.1

John, like Mark, does not give a specific genealogy, but he does give two witnesses which confirm the Jewish people considered Jesus to be Joseph's son:

Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” (1:45)

They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’ ?” (6:42)

John also includes compelling evidence Jesus' genealogy to David was not disputed:

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20)

John provided other evidence Jesus was the Christ because not only was Jesus' ancestry was not in question, ancestry by itself was not the deciding factor.

Virgin Birth & Maternal Priority
It appears the OP rejects what Scripture states and what the Jewish people of the period accepted on the basis of the virgin birth.2Therefore, since Joseph was not the biological father, the claim to be a descendent of David is invalid. In addition to those Scriptures which state otherwise, there are several reasons why line of reasoning can be rejected.

The virgin birth is a unique event. As such the normal rules governing ancestry cannot be assumed to apply. Rather, just as Moses went to the LORD with a situation involving the daughters of Zelophehad, it will be the LORD's records which will decide the question:

5 And of Zion it shall be said, “This one and that one were born in her”; for the Most High himself will establish her. 6 The LORD records as he registers the peoples, “This one was born there.” (Psalm 87)

This Old Testament passage shows the LORD not only maintains the register of births; He determines heritage.

Moreover, if this is the objection, it is unreasonable to deny the ancestry Scripture states on the basis of a miraculous conception, which was necessary to fulfill Scripture.

Additionally, the chosen people are biologically differentiated from those not chosen solely on the basis of a woman. The DNA which separates Abraham's descendants is from the mother. It is Sarah's DNA which separates Isaac from Ishmael, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. This shows paternal relationship is not the determining factor. DNA testing, which is used to prove paternity, points to another consideration. If God can bring a virgin birth, He can do so with DNA identical to any of David's sons, or even David himself (cf. Psalm 139:13; Isaiah 44:2, 24, 49:5; Jeremiah 1:5)

The Law also provides for a man's name to be continued even if he does not father a child:

5 “If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead man shall not be married outside the family to a stranger. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her as his wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her. 6 And the first son whom she bears shall succeed to the name of his dead brother, that his name may not be blotted out of Israel. (Deuteronomy 25)

The Law considers a child who has no biological connection to the deceased husband, to be his son. As with Sarah, what determines ancestry is the woman. In such cases, there is neither a biological connection nor a formal adoption by the husband. Nevertheless, solely on the basis of marriage, the son is considered a descendent of the husband.

If the Law decrees a son born through such a relationship to be the son of a man who had no biological part in the conception of the child, then a son born through a virgin could reasonably be considered in the same light.


1. The issue of ancestry cannot be dismissed solely on the basis of adoption. For example, Jacob claimed Manasseh and Ephraim as his own sons and through them Israel would be named ...and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.” (Genesis 48:16) and “By you Israel will pronounce blessings, saying, ‘God make you as Ephraim and as Manasseh.’” (Genesis 48:20) Clearly Jacob believed the adopted sons were no different than those born to him.
2. The Greek translation of Isaiah reads, Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and you shall name him Emmanouel. As this was done 200 years before the birth of Christ, it reflects a pre-Christian understanding of the prophecy, which is also found in the Gospels.

Revelation Lad
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  • Just because Matthew & Luke said that Jesus was the Son of David does not make him the Son of David. The same writers said that Jesus was born to Mary through the spirit and no human male was involved.

  • In the time of Jesus, everyone believed that Joseph and Mary were a normal married couple and had children and the first son born to them was Jesus.

  • Like you and I read the bible today, in Jesus' time(0000-0030 BCE) there was no documentation of Jesus. Mark was written in 65-70 BCE and all the others followed. Till Then all was the word of mouth

  • – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 06:57
  • I agree that every descendent of David is NOT christ and the Christ has to be a descendent of David.

    I am asking help to show that Jesus is the decedent of David. I have no doubts that Jesus is christ as told by the new testament.

    The issue I am seeing if you tie it back to the Tanak.

    – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:01
  • The Jews in Jesus' time did not believe that Jesus was born to a virgin. Bible says Joseph did not reject mary meaning he hid the fact that he is not the father. Had Joseph sent her away, she would have been stoned to death for adultary. The Jews of Jesus' time believed Jesus was born to Mother Mary + Father Joseph. The + means the natural human way. – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:04
  • There are multiple issues in your next statement about the daughters of Zelophehad. This is a story that exactly makes my point that the father decides the tribe. Please read Numbers 36:5-9 it is very clear. – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:13
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    Next you talk about a virgin birth being prophesied, Probably the verse you are referring to Isaiah 7:14. The word in Tanak is Young Woman Christian bible changed it to Virgin to match with the virgin birth in Matthew. The tense has been changed from past tense to future tense. The use of the word THE refers to a specific woman that Ahaz knows about. The verse in Isaiah 7 Is during the 4th year of Ahaz and is referring to Hezekiah Verse 16 talks about how the 2 kings Aram and Pekah will be destroyed before the child matures. This is what happened during the lifetime of Hezekiah – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:13
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    Virgin births are not common either in Jewish or Christian beliefs. Please see how this is such a common Greco-Roman belief. Almost all their huge heroes are born when a god impregnates a virgin and once these people die they become demi-gods. – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:15
  • God promised Abraham that a son will be born to Him and Sarah and his name was to be Isaac. Ishmael was never the promise. (Genesis 19:17) Same between Absolam and Solomon. God Promised that there will a King forever on David & Solomons's throne(1 Kings 1:17, 2 Samuel 7:11-13) so why do see a need for help from the mother in either of these two cases? – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:27
  • Sorry if I don't understand your Point 3 about a Levirate son. it has no relevance to Jesus and the virgin birth and most importantly Joseph is right there.... – Yeddu May 02 '21 at 07:29